PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Terms and Endearment (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment-38/)
-   -   BA Direct Entry Pilot. (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/538503-ba-direct-entry-pilot.html)

RexBanner 21st Oct 2015 21:58

The whole "acclimatised" thing with EASA is a bit of a red herring as regards to long haul. Aren't long haul pilots advised to stay attuned with their home time zone during trips anyway? Bit difficult with a Sydney of course but certainly doable on a back to back west coast I would have imagined, which is where the problems lie under EASA apparently. We all know EASA regs are completely ridiculous anyway and this is further proof.

Cliff Secord 22nd Oct 2015 00:03

Rexbanner

No, depends on length of layover. If short, in basic terms, yes, that's the advice. Min rest pax operators doing back and forth trips may achieve this with mild success.

But if long layovers its not a matter of choice. Even worse is long haul string freight trips over mulitple time zones. The body can keep up just about for the first two nights on its local clock before it succums to the inevitable.

Jet lag is extremely complex. An oft mis understood subject by shorthaul shift pilots. It's not the same as staying at home and altering your sleep pattern on days and nights. You won't achieve the same results. Sleep deprivation and jet lag aren't the same. Out of phase daylight, the environmental and cultural world around you moving in tune to a different clock, type of meals available at times of the local day. These all affect the brain and can leave you close to ruined by the end of a trip.

It's a big subject and the airline I fly for has almost a book of a manual on jet leg and how to try and cope with it. Try being the operative word. It's always going to be a damaging, unnatural process on the body that you can only do your best with.

ChaseIt 22nd Oct 2015 07:43

Have any assessment days happened yet? If so how'd people go with it? What can you expect?

speedrestriction 22nd Oct 2015 20:27

I have been told that the format hasn't changed from the accounts previously given. Numerical and verbal reasoning MCQs - time is tight for both. Computer based co-ordination and capacity tests - I don't think you can do a whole lot to prepare for these beyond getting a good night's rest beforehand if possible.

2 Whites 2 Reds 22nd Oct 2015 22:19


I don't think you can do a whole lot to prepare for these beyond getting a good night's rest beforehand if possible.
Couldn't disagree more.

The prep is part of the assessment. Unless you're a very clever individual that's naturally gifted at verbal reasoning and computer games with backwards flight directors (I'm certainly not), I would strongly advise putting the leg work in.

With a bit of research and some minor financial investment in some prep software / books (SkyTest and Assessment-day spring to mind) these tests are entirely passable. The capacity test at the end of the first stage is something that can't really be rehearsed but in reality it's only as stressful as dealing with a lengthy non normal in the descent. If you do well in 3 out of 4 then you're probably in with a good chance. (bearing in mind it's an overall score across the 4 different tests on the day)

BA aren't after geniuses or shit hot pilots (if they were I'd still be back flying in LoCo land), just people that will fit in and are prepared to work hard, learn and progress. If you don't want BA enough to do so then you're probably best saving your days off for something more constructive and let someone else have a go.

As for a good nights sleep the night before, absolutely, but cannot be guaranteed. I had an awful nights sleep before 2 out of 3 stages. The hard work prior to attending each stage got me through.

Just my two cents worth.

Evening All

2W2R

back to Boeing 23rd Oct 2015 00:09


Originally Posted by speedrestriction (Post 9155368)
I don't think you can do a whole lot to prepare for these beyond getting a good night's rest beforehand if possible.

Absolute tosh. And I am one of those people that has no fear of sims and a lot of "difficult" tasks come relatively easy to me. I spent on average 30-60 minutes per day for 2-3 months preparing for just stage 1. Research, testing, verbal reasoning etc etc etc. Those former colleagues of mine that didn't put in the work are still at my previous employer. Those that did put in the work now (on the main) work for BA. Ask every DEP and if they're honest 90% of them will say they put in the work.

Those that didn't call the tests a pile of crap and totally unnecessary if you have a type rating "why should I be tested I've proved that I can do a course, I never wanted to work for BA anyway"

Cliff Secord 23rd Oct 2015 01:21

Well aren't you just the bloody great big goat's toe.

Never heard such a self preening pious bunch of complete pompous [email protected]@tery in all my life as displayed during your first two sentances. If one didn't know better, aviation would seem to overflow with this attitude these days. Thank God, there's some normal humble (but extremely capable) people still around. Psychopathic tendencies were supposed to be ruled out by aviation testing. Obviously hasn't worked.

back to Boeing 23rd Oct 2015 02:46

Oh good another keyboard hero who completely misses the point. Play the man all you like. Meanwhile the ball has gone sailing straight past you.

speedrestriction 23rd Oct 2015 10:58

Just to clarify: you could of course (and probably should) prepare for the numerical and verbal reasoning tests. What I don't believe you can improve a whole lot is your scoring in the co-ordination and capacity tests; these are more down to your innate ability and I do believe that there is research to support this.

The clue was in the punctuation in my first post.

GS-Alpha 23rd Oct 2015 11:07

Although I went through selection as a cadet, I believe the selection proceedure was very similar for DEP and CEP applicants, but without the simulator day. Admittedly I went through a long time ago but I believe the tests are still pretty similar to this day. I did zero preparation as I was incredibly busy with other things at the time and BA was not the be all and end all. I was one of those scribbling down my logical workings in the maths questions, in the way I've always been trained to do - even if I already know the answer in my head. I completed significantly fewer maths questions than the rest of the applicants within my group, but I knew my answers were methodical and correct. I actually really enjoyed the whole selection experience, finding the computer tests challenging and really quite fun. I didn't over think anything. I just followed instructions carefully, read questions carefully, and answered interview questions as honestly as I could. I actually remember upon being asked "So why do you want be an airline pilot?", thinking "Crumbs man! This really is one question you could have prepared for!", but it resulted in my coming out with a completely honest answer.

The point I'm trying to make is that preparation is really just a means to get your mind thinking in the right ways and giving yourself the confidence to perform. I'd have thought these are all the kinds of things that a current pilot should already be able to do? I was a recent university science graduate, working in a very hand eye co-ordinated field at the time (although nothing to do with flying), so I was confident I could complete any tasks thrown at me. Perhaps my everyday skills were my preparation, but I had no idea what was coming on the testing days - only a knowledge that the test couldn't be as demanding as the kinds of things I could already do.

no sponsor 23rd Oct 2015 11:57

I worked my socks off to prepare. I'm certainly not like GS-Alpha, who is clearly very gifted.

I did a few practice verbal reasoning examples and despite thinking they would be quite easy, realised I needed quite a bit of practice. Same with the maths. All my answers in the interview were honest, but I'd made sure I had my examples sitting in my short term memory. Having cocked up my first interview when my mind just went blank at the most inconvenient time.

As for the sim, I got myself very good at flying raw data again. My capacity bucket was quite large when I turned up for sim day.

GS-Alpha 23rd Oct 2015 14:10

Ha! I've certainly never been described as such in the simulator. I'm just your average BA pilot.

highfive 23rd Oct 2015 15:20

Should pay you guys more than 50k based on all that extra curricular effort you've been putting in ;)

It could actually be deemed as cheating the tests, and infact BA may well not be getting the quality of candidates that the results indicate they should employ ?

What happened to stick n rudder ? Oh its now back to front in the assesnent lol

Stage5 23rd Oct 2015 18:02


Should pay you guys more than 50k based on all that extra curricular effort you've been putting in

It could actually be deemed as cheating the tests, and infact BA may well not be getting the quality of candidates that the results indicate they should employ ?

What happened to stick n rudder ? Oh its now back to front in the assesnent lol
With that in mind practicing raw data could be seen as cheating. ;)

'Fail to prepare, prepare to fail'

As for the "why aptitude testing for DEPs" ..... https://www.iata.org/publications/Do...ting-guide.pdf

VJW 23rd Oct 2015 21:41

It's interesting reading everyone semi-arguing here, forgetting the point that people just prepare differently for these kind of tests. I'm sure there are people who've put enormous amounts of study in who fail and people who just book an assessment on a wing and a prayer and pass.

Personally having been through it twice and not got to day two yet, I'm know I'm weak at the verbal test. For me the maths was easy, however having used lastestpilotjobs for the joystick test preparation I wasn't sure (of course with no feedback how could I be) that my score showed I had been practising this. From the get go I had that FD nailed, on the counting and joystick same again with 8 correct 0 wrong answers, and finally with all three I had 18 hits 3 misses. Again, I know I had to have failed the verbal, but I wonder if by doing the above did I show I was improving or actually getting worse? Personally I won't practise that if I get a chance again and the last computer test you can't really practice anyway. I'd brush up on the maths, and hit the verbal practice hard and keep my fingers crossed that the third times the charm.

Blueskyrich 23rd Oct 2015 23:14

As a hold pool swimmer, let me put one concept forward to you all.

As professional pilots, we try and plan for every eventuality. Granted, we don't always get it right, however we try our very best to make sure we're fully briefed before the TOGA button is pressed. We're professionals, it's what makes us, well, us.

So, why would an attempt at the BA selection process be any different? It is professional to understand the situation you are entering. It is professional to want to achieve the highest standard possible. It is professional to make sure you are prepared for what is coming.

Waiting for someone else to give you the answers or tell you how to get to where you are going isn't going to do anyone any favours.

kirungi1 24th Oct 2015 13:13

Blueskyrich


Waiting for someone else to give you the answers or tell you how to get to where you are going isn't going to do anyone any favours.
An honest and sincere piece of advice. Thank you :ok:

FLYINGPERCY 24th Oct 2015 13:29

In any industry, if you want a job, you have to prepare for it. Going in 'blind' will not showcase your skills as you will not have prepared. Do we as pilots perform a perfect go around without mentally rehearsing it, practising it and then performing it? Have I cheated if I have practised it before my sim check? Course not!

Selection is exactly the same, in every industry. I do not know anyone, in any professional role, that did not prepare for an interview and selection. Part of devising these tests and interviews is to filter those that want the job and those that don't. Those that do, I would argue will prepare and work hard to understand what is required to pass them, as our day job, bares little resemblance to the selection tests - a fact that can be said in all industries!

Top and bottom - you get out, what you put in and add a slice of luck, it may work out. I say this as someone who went through the process.

john1007 25th Oct 2015 11:49

Start dates
 
Hi all,

Well I believe the Crystal run is complete and the numbers they have been projecting for next year are confirmed.

Does anyone have any info. regarding when BA might start to call people with courses? Rated, non-rated, SH, LH etc...

Much appreciated.

one day soon 25th Oct 2015 13:47

Wrong I'm afraid John...... the results wait continues


All times are GMT. The time now is 22:39.


Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.