I used to, yes. I think your analysis of Flybe is spot on. They can't even make a profit when guys are doing 24 sectors a week in two of the most efficient aircraft in the world. It's top heavy and appears to have its head firmly wedged in the sand. A roster like mine wouldn't be viable even if they'd let me get away with so little work!

I also agree with you about easyJet, in fact I got as far as turning down an interview with them in favour of my first command, I would have been financially a bit better off (they had proper contracts back then) but I would have done twice as much work as I have since that point - this year I've done 350 flying hours and a smidge over 1100 hours duty. I would put that kind of work/lifestyle balance way higher up the pecking order than 4 sector days, 5 days in a row and you can definitely count me out of the long haul/M25 rat race/London nightmare.

The thread starters post is a blue copy of the exact conditions in my outfit. Remove the reference of orange, and it would fit perfectly. I believe there are many out there that searches for that last decent airline to work for, but they have all disappeared. There are simply too many disadvantages with taking the whole family to the sandpit or Asia, and no job security whatsoever. The only option left is a change of career when the current airline finally sucks the last bit of motivation out of you.

He is probably suffering from chronic dissapointment , as they told him it would be like this . . . . . . .


Captain Gorgeous !! - YouTube




the beginning & the end, not the middle

If you all started playing hardball and grounded aircraft then all the nonsense would halt, but hey what do I know?

Me, I have left the airlines for good! (Hopefully)

Yes, lets ground the fleet tomorrow and slaughter our company publicly thus alienating our customers while placing all our futures in jeopardy by engaging in unofficial industrial action. Don't know why I didn't think of that.

Gatwick Captain here and I can't complain too much. My running totals for the
last 12 months is 645 hrs and I am a full time employee:ok: Money aint too bad either:)

As good as it gets--- a couple of years ago I was in the unfortunate position to find myself without a job.....full stop. I struggled to get a minimum wage job.

After struggling to pay the bills for months on end, I eventually found a job in a factory which entailed of counting ten packets and popping them inside a box. This lasted 12 hours a day for 3 days a week....7 days a week If requested,which often I had to do..#boringasf*ck

Eventually I gained employment as a pilot and have worked happily ever since,luckily with a mainline carrier. When I get bad days I put myself in the position I was in a few years ago.
I earned £200 a week in that job.

It's about time you sat back and realised how fortunate you are to be doing a Job that the majority of the population wish they could be doing., despite earning 90k+ a year.

As I said in a previous post, dry your eyes and quit crying like a child that's looking for a suck....

I think Nordicman has just summed it up!!
Some bases are not too bad if you are in the right position, hours ok, money rewarding.

But it doesn't seem consistent across the company.
Also you can't seem to get a deal like that anymore. If you're a captain great. If you move to the left hand seat ( many moving at the moment?) then ok ish.
But the contract guys get a rough deal.
How about the future, bet he deal NM is on wont be around for long!!

How long until this spreads? To the left hand seat or other companies and becomes the norm??

Problem is, ok guys like NM don't seem bothered. I'm alright Jack!!!
Again the every man for himself attitude will lead to an industry wide reduction of standards.


(Ps, I'm not having a personal dig at NM, I'm glad he has a job that suits him well. If only we could all be assured of positions like that these days. U fortunately they are few and far between and we as the workforce have to stand up to the companies who are walking all over our t&c).

But then you know we are fighting this through the union. Haven't the UK guys just voted away a B-scale? Isn't the same about to happen in other bases?

723hrs in the last 12 months, full time. LGW Captain. Can't complain.

Penko, I believe the problem then lies in the fact that yes, we voted out a B-scale but what has happened since? The situation is still the same as it was with no improvement.

Last webchat CMC stated that "Ryanair actually have comparable pay levels to competitors... and their way of operating gives them incredible flexibility.." my own interpretation of the words, I can't be arsed with looking for the text.

During merlin I remember CMC proudly stating "We are not Ryanair", now this change in rhethoric is alarming as it seems to point out a change towards the Ryanarization of the airline which certain ex-RYR executives who now work for us have tried to implement.

Look at the LIS contract, do you think a guy in the LHS there is being paid well enough for what he does? I am in the RHS and I earn more than a skipper in LIS. I'm sure the cost of living is not a reason enough for someone doing the same job as I am with a lot more responsibility earning so much less.

Beauport potatoman,

Your flying hours would explain my high hours! Working my butt off all the time +500 hrs in the last 6 months including 3 weeks off on holiday. :(

And I was going to suggest Lisbon as little holiday base to the original poster. Contract isn't good, true! But not many people here are complaining about lifestyle. Mostly experienced FO's so not too much stress, random roster but rarely ever work 5 days in a row.

Money isn't everything in life, if you can trade some in and improve your well being its money we'll spent.

There are a couple of guys in Easy who have returned from Emirates to the RHS, ask them how green the grass is!

There is, fortunately, an increasing dose of common sense and perspective here about the alternatives. The words of contributors like keep_er_lit and others are indeed cautionary tales. We know at easyJet we have a big issue related to the flexicrew problem. Our latest missive from our Head of Flight Operations (a good guy by the way) suggests it will all be resolved by the end of Jan 2013 - I personally think that is highly unlikely. Nonetheless, it will be resolved at some point and the vast majority of our pilots will have permanent contracts. Once that pressing issue is resolved we can then get back to making sure we remain in the excellent position we are right now. In terms of the running of the airline, love them or hate them, our managers are doing a great job of running an increasingly efficient operation, maintaining high load factors, bringing up the share price, increasing profit margins and keeping the investors happy. That is no mean feat and having had the misfortune to work for airlines with a significantly less competent management team and a dire financial position, I am very grateful for our current state. As I have said before, there are indeed better airlines out there than easyJet - but not many. Those of you thinking that Air Utopia is just waiting to offer you a job paying you twice as much for flying half your current schedule, whilst recognising your outstanding talent and contribution to the Company are likely to be sadly disappointed. It is a hard world out there for most people and I do not intend to jump off a a plain but fully functional ship in the hope of landing on the Queen Mary - only to discover myself floating on a life raft in shark-infested waters.

AdM
 

You say "the vast majority of our pilots will have permanent contracts".

Why not every single one of them?

You can pretend all you like about great management, but where is the respect and decency?

If even a single eJ pilot is on a "flex" contract, you will have left yourselves open for further, more egregious, division tactics in the future.

It should be every pilot on an eJ contract.

This is a serious PROFESSION, not some holiday job in a bar.:mad:

Narrow Runway - apologies if I did not explain that better. My reference to 'the vast majority' is simply because I envisage a 6-month probationary period similar to the period that happened with the original CTC guys. It is not because I see any place for flexicrew at easyJet.

Most permanent jobs in the UK usually have a probationary period written into the contract. This would usually be of six month duration, in some cases up to twelve.
So... with that in mind... The 'probationary' period argument for retaining flexicrew doesn't really stack up... :suspect:

Hypothetically, if someone was brought in on a permanent contract and grossly underperforming then the company would be well within their rights to terminate that individual's contract - if within said probationary period.

Having said that, there's a difference between someone 'underperforming' in their role and being let go as they are just not needed over the Winter... :=

Flexicrew needs to disappear - full stop.
Like any malignant growth, if it is not fully excised - you can expect it to flare up again in the future...

And we're getting upset about contract pilots who volunteered to buy their temporary jobs when a permanent Paris FO earns more than a Gatwick Captain and a Lisbon Captain earns less than a Gatwick FO? Same company, same aircraft, same routes. SAME PAY. That's what the slogan should be, not blethering on about p2f volunteers. That is a serious problem and it needs addressing, sure, but imho it isn't the elephant in the room.

Less than inflation pay settlement yet again after yet another set of record profits because the company "can't afford more"? And we swallow that?

What's the matter with us - and our unions?

:D:D:D:D:D
Well said, Wageslave!
However, is there not a European rule regarding equal remuneration for people in the same role? Might be an avenue for investigation?

If a company is doing well it should reward it's staff accordingly... Pure and simple. It's funny how directors never forget this when conducting their own pay/bonus review. :mad:

How much did Carolyn McCall receive this year? Two million in shares?
All the while flexicrew F/Os go bankrupt or struggle to live...
Nice people at the helm of the good ship Easyjet.

You know I completely empathise with As good as it gets.

I too as felt as he does, frequently, and I know I am far from being alone (despite some other postings on here).

I have contributed it to being constantly fatigued by long unsociable hours and the stress involved in flying almost daily with different individuals who have differing levels of ability and experience.

easyJet could make my life easier but they choose not to because "we need to remain competitive" and "our competition has greater flexibility and lower crew costs".

Yes, I get paid very well but I am too tired to enjoy it and constantly arguing with the inland revenue about how much tax I'm paying!

Unfortunately, with the exception of a few remaining legacy carriers, I think the good old days are well and truly gone.

As good as it gets?


















Probably.