Pilot pay.
 

Apologies if this is in the wrong bit, Mod(s) please feel free to remove it to the correct bit.
Now, the vexed question of pay. A still workingrailway colleague of mine mentioned en passant that Virgin trains are advertising for qualified drivers with a salary on offer of £53k P.A. With a bit of shift allowance, London weighting and the occasional rest day working this would likely to top out at circa £56-7K.
How does that compare with say, a 737 Captain with a major(ish) airline?

poorly! for the UK
Depending how many years service (say 5) a jet FO should easily exceed that and a similar paypoint skipper should be on at least 85k. (inc variable pay)
There will be loads of examples higher and lower, but there will always be other factors which are affecting the pay.
In the UK £55k is ERJ145 skipper money, I think.

As an aside, I would imagine that £55k is what most accountants in the airlines think we are worth.

A S/H Captain with Ezy or BA will earn ballpark 100k a year. Some will earn a fair amount more with bonuses/allowances. So you are looking at roughly twice what a Virgin Trains driver brings in. For a closer comparison, an F/O in their first few years at BA (direct entry salary) earns around 60-65k with potential to boost that with overtime.

I too have a few friends working for the railways and it seems a VT driver position is seen as something of a career aspiration as they are towards the top end of the pay scale along with Eurostar drivers. These guys are working alone for hours on end and in charge of a train travelling at speeds of well over 100mph that will carry hundreds of people long distances - I would say that is a reasonable amount of responsibility for what they earn, but just as with airline pilot salaries, the accountants have other ideas. The testing and training of drivers has a very high failure rate and there is a lot more to the job than public perception would have you believe - sound familiar pilots?

The starting salary for direct entry FOs at BA during the aborted recruitment drive was about £50k IIRC.

Considering the relative complexities of the two jobs, I'd say a Virgin train driver is well paid compared with an airline pilot.

The highest you are likely to be paid in the UK as a year one FO (DEP only) is at BA. Basic salary short of £51K, with flight pay etc bringing it up towards the 60K mark. Other comparable salaries would be with the likes of Monarch or Virgin. Thomson aren't offering full time positions and the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair will pay you by the block hour. Yes there are full time permanent guys at each of these operators, however the respective airlines aren't the faintest bit interested in offering such deals. Not sure what the other major operators such as FlyBe are paying. However it's always been a permanent contract to my knowledge.

So by and large airline pilots are now on par with train, tube and bus drivers when it comes to income and in a lot of cases are actually worse off.

Virgin drivers are amongst the best paid in the industry, most drivers earn between 35 and 45k. Im not diminishing the job of an airline pilot but train drivers have to be concentrating 100% of the time as they dont have the luxury of an autopilot to do a large proportion of their job for them. They also work alone, long gone are the days of having 2 drivers, and therefore cant put their feet up and grab 40 winks during the course of their journey.

The point I was trying to make is that the best paid train drivers in the uk are paid a salary comparable to an F/O on a jet with one of the better paying airlines. A jet Captain is still paid considerably more. For the respective roles and responsibility I think the pay differential is about right.

[QUOTE]The starting salary for direct entry FOs at BA during the aborted recruitment drive was about £50k IIRC.
/QUOTE]

plus 10-15k in allowances, hence...

Yep, allowances are on top, of course.

I disagree with the above. in my opinion driving a train in two dimensions along an immovable track, even if one must stay awake, is simply incomparable with the complexities of airline flying in three dimensions in an environment hostile to human life. Train drivers do not have to worry about hand driving off the rails, turnarounds, fuel, complex arrivals in many different countries, foreign ATC, pax, and the myriad of possible disasters that can befall the unwary or unlucky. I'll hazard a guess that train drivers do not learn to drive small trains, slightly bigger trains, then complicated trains with two engines etc etc. The only common denominator is bearing responsibility for many lives.

Anyway, back to thread. ;)

Completely agree with you.

[QUOTE] The highest you are likely to be paid in the UK as a year one FO (DEP only) is at BA. Basic salary short of £51K, with flight pay etc bringing it up towards the 60K mark. Other comparable salaries would be with the likes of Monarch or Virgin. Thomson aren't offering full time positions and the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair will pay you by the block hour. Yes there are full time permanent guys at each of these operators, however the respective airlines aren't the faintest bit interested in offering such deals. Not sure what the other major operators such as FlyBe are paying. However it's always been a permanent contract to my knowledge.

So by and large airline pilots are now on par with train, tube and bus drivers when it comes to income and in a lot of cases are actually worse off. /QUOTE]

Jesus Callsign Kilo, I know some people who are glass half empty types, but you take that to a whole new level. You are comparing a top job as a train driver with entry pilot positions and claiming that it means pilots are paid worse than train drivers. This is nonsense. A similarly experienced pilot would be on close to double what a train driver earns.

And how much does a train driver pay for his/her training when compared to that which a pilot does? take that into consideration and i think you can see where CallsignKilo might be coming from.

When a train driver falls a sleep the train stops automatically after a very short time, a cockpit crew in the same situation will find themself somewhere over the atlantic at about 10W and if lucky with enough fuel to return.

The main difference between a pilot and train, bus or lorry drivers is time!
If something goes wrong anyone else can stop and have a some while waiting for help, a pilot has limited time and possibilities to solve the problem.

UK regional Dash skippers on 60k ish including flight duty pay, add just under 10k for the Brazilian wonderjet.

yep, they deserve every penny and more.

At Afriqiyah Airways in Libya FOs can expect to be on around £50k after tax. Captains around £75k after tax. Living expenses minimal. Quality of life (outside airline) pretty poor.

Back to the VT train drivers, how does that compare with say a normal train driver? Aren't they generally well paid right across the board?

How many Bus or Train driver's have forked out £120,000 + to get their licence and then an additional £23k to £30k for a Routemaster/D Stock Tube licence and maybe another 20k for 500h of watching another driver?

How many experienced drivers are out of work because the companies only "employ" P2D contractor cadets?

Wizzair pay
 

Wizz pay:

FO (PL contract) with TR: 2500
no TR: 1500 (first 15 mth)

SFO (PL contract) with TR: 2800
no TR: 1800 (first 15 mth)

CPT (PL contract) with TR: 4500
no TR: 3500 (first 15 mth)

All Euros paid after tax and social. Taxes done in a very doggy way (paid in Swiss?:mad::ugh:) Not for long I guess...

All the best!

I work for a LCC in Europe.

They deduct 1000E per month from my salary for Bond.
Last month flew close to 90 hours, And took home after Tax and deductions 700euro.

Not Bad huh.

Pilot Pay
 

Pilots are richer than their wildest orgasmic dreams. Just ask the IRS:O

A320baby.... Is that 720 in tax or is that what you took home, if its the latter, you're earning less than minimum wage?

No he's not, it's €700 net of tax and €1000 for training. Minimum wage in Hungary (if thats where he is based) is equivalent of €1.70 ph.

Still crap though.

Thats what I took home, I earnt 1700e but they deduct 1000e for training. Salary is crap Company is good, cant complain at current, because alot of people are out of work at the moment.

Trans Pennine
 

A mate of mine has just been selected to join Trans Pennine Express as a train driver.

First year pay (during training): £18,000.

Second and onwards: £45,000.

Only works 1 Sunday in 4.

Not bad, but not exactly stellar.

Just been taken on as a First Great Western trainee driver at the Oxford depot.

Training salary is ~£23K p/a, by the end of training, and 'probation', pay will have risen to ~£43K.

There is overtime available but no idea how many hours and the daily rate.

Those are for 'slow' commuter trains, more for the faster stuff after a few years experience.

For those quoting W!ZZ pay, I suggest to compare it with train driver pay in Poland, or Romania...

But we are not talking about train drivers in Poland, we are talking about Airline pilot pay! Jeez how can you actually come on here and have the front to say that! I bet a train driver in poland didnt have to pay in excess of 100000E for his training? :ugh::ugh:

Chill out, buddy!

Check the opening post of the thread - despite the title it IS about comparing F/O pay to train driver's (whether it makes sense it's another story). I just wanted to put things in perspective - 2000Eur (or whatever) is not the same in London and in Bucharest..

Not just the dosh!
 

My brother-in-law is a driver for East Coast mainline, seems like very similar pay to Virgin Trains, however......what an easy roster!!

Hardly any nightstops, around 16-19 days OFF per month! Not too many F/O jobs give you that much free time.

As i'm frequently told if you want to earn £500 for flying on a day off, then go and become a Pilot. Therefore if you want to become a train driver...
And you'll have Bob Crow in charge of you're Union! :\

'And you'll have Bob Crow in charge of you're Union!'

Would that be so terrible given the relentless driving down of T&Cs over the past 10 years? I'll bet you a pound to a penny PTF would never have happened with Mr Crow at the helm.:D

Train Driver Trainee - How To Become A Train Driver UK

There you Go, depends if your Happy going up the same bit of Track Day in Day out. The Training is Long and Arduous but i don"t think they Stop you anything for your Type Rating or Uniform, you may have to pay for a Sandwich at the Buffet Car but that"s about it.
Father was on the Railway for 30 years Plus, (not as a Driver) and thoroughly enjoyed it, Excellent Pension by all accounts.

Ahhhh but there is not the same kudos driving a train as strutting around in the gold bars...

We all have to pay for our pose.

Flying Pay might not be great; but the wheeze of appearing in the terminal dressed like a japanese admiral.. priceless.

Beats flying round in circles for eight hours at a time, which is what I did in the military!

One thing about train driving is that the remuneration is fairly constant across the UK - ~£43K once qualified. There appears to be a good deal of a greater difference in pilot pay depending on company, type of route and capt/co.

How about comparing with UK LoCos
 

Come on folks, the BA figures are irrelevant if BA are not taking DE pilots anymore.

Future pilot, FlexiCrew, MPL and even some P2F schemes are the reality for those not already in an airline with a half decent pre 2001 contract.

The truth is around £120k to CTC or similar followed by £25k TR, and then possibly unemployed for 6 months -3 years, plus cost of IR and TR renewals?

Some fall for Lion Air type P2F schemes and have paid 30k for a few hundred hours flying pax and taking FO jobs.....

The best deals for new starters are probably closer to £18k with TR bond on a turboprop.

Where do you get those 100k+ € training costs?? Who is screwing you up the a*s with such amounts?

Hmmm,
I always thought BA were astronomical payers but a mate who is a Junior FO on 744 reckons he takes home £3K ?

Bit like the plumbers - but if they earn so much why do they always live in poor housing in the dodgy bits of town ?

So if it was 200k €, you would still pay that?

£3K a month/36K per annum, after all deductions is credible. I'd these days for the rank and file say BA are generally good payers, rather than astronomical.

I was Aircraft dispatcher/Load controller for 13 yrs with British Midland and
Virgin Atlantic and looked at doing a flying course in the early 2000s but the
cost was 80k and no certainty of a flying position when qualified.I had a work
friend who went to the US and paid a lot of money to fly and when he came back to the uk he found out his training was not valid here.
I saw a advert for Train drivers and applied.I was paid during the 18 months
of training 20k pa.The job is quiet repetive and you work on your own but you are left alone as long as i dont have a incident.
The salary and conditions are good,i work for a London based suburban Train company and basic pay 53k for a 33 hr week.We have a good final salary pension scheme also.Overtime is available if you need it.I get free train travel on a few companies and pay 10% on others.Also a free Oyster card for tubes and buses.My company lay on a free xmas do all food and drink is free.We have coffee machines in every depot also free of charge.
We have a strong trade union ASLEF not the earlier mentioned Bob crow, hes the other lot.
The job requires concentration and the shifts can be lousy but overall im
happy i made the move.