Anyone who thinks NAS is the same as FR needs to get their head checked.

Some observations since I joined NAS:

1. Basic salary. In FR I had none.
2. Paid annual leave. In FR I had none.
3. Transparent basing system. In FR there was no system IMHO.
4. Seniority list. In FR none.
5. Crew food. In FR none.
6. As much tea coffee and bottled water as you want during your duties.. In FR none
7. Union recognition. In FR none.
8. Uniform crew bags etc which are provided by the company at a cost of just over 1100 pounds sterling. In FR none.
9. ACARS/CPDLC. in FR there was none.
10. Electronic Flight Bag. In FR none. The First Officer lumbers around a big trip kit. The EFB makes life so much easier with performance, flight plans etc.
11. Weather radar that has auto tilt. In FR standard one fitted.
12. Standbys paid. In FR I had none.
13. Medical and licence renewal paid. In FR not provided for me.
14. Hotel at the sim provided. In FR not provided for me.
15. Hotel provided when out of base. In FR not provided for me.
16. Loss of Licence. In FR I had none.
17. Sky interior. In FR awful interior IMHO.
18. Short field performance 737 with carbon brakes. In FR standard model.
19. Night stops in some nice places and some not so nice. Variety. In FR none.
20. ID travel. In FR I had none
21. Commuting to and from base via S2 tickets which are booked via a simple SMS booking system on your phone that takes about 10 seconds to do. Pick your allocated seat. Travel in civilian clothes. Bottle of water/ tea coffee provided. Turn on your laptop and turn on your WIFI. More legroom than in standard 737 with reclining Recaro seats. All small things you might think but add up to make a big big difference to the commute.
In FR commuting is in uniform where you turn up at the gate and will be the last one to board the aircraft. No allocated seat,endless sales PAs to endure and lovely bright fluorescent lights to keep you awake in your cramped seat.
22. Airport ID provided and paid for. In FR at my own cost.
23. Car parking provided. In FR none.

There is so many more things but I can't think of them all right now.

Ok management are trying to cut terms and conditions but they are being met with fierce resistance unlike FR. And long may it continue by the way.

jedy are you actually insane? That's a genuine question by the way.

I would hazard a guess that you were one of those passive types in FR that didn't engage in the RPG and didn't have any interest in getting union recognition and better terms and conditions. Am I right?

If I am right it's people like you that we don't need here IMHO. There is a career here that's worth fighting for.

I hope you get back into FR. Don't forget to pack your lunch and bring a tea bag :mad::ugh:

Great post go-around!! 23 points jus to name but a few!!! :ok:

Smooth - Exactly, balpa tried more than once and failed miserably! If they cant break the fr machine then the boys and girls on their own have no chance!

Completely agree though, in NAS once they get away with degrading the t's&c's and get a whiff of a weakness that will be the start of a downward spiral!! It cant be allowed to happen!!!

The CURRENT T&C's are good and it's a nice place to work.

The PROPOSED new T&C's are such a massive and insulting reduction that I would simply stop working if and when they were implemented.

I really don't want this to happen, obviously. As someone who is heading to LGW later this year I am very worried indeed.

What to do? Join BALPA is a start I guess. Must admit to being rather dubious about their effectiveness outside the BA world though.

I think our only real hope is that the HEL boys really stand up and fight hard for us all. Good luck to them and we'll do whatever we can to help.

You forgot about the bit where they :mad: you off downroute somewhere where you have to find yer own way, accommodation, transport, food after you've followed a set of rules just to jumpseat which if abused our "privledge" will be withdrawn!!! Hang on, privilege?? You mean necessity!!! Do they expect us to drive?? Its so hard to explain how big a bunch of they are in the higher echelons!

That is exactly what NAS is doing to me. Oh¡ I forgot maybe at the end of the month I will be rostered out of my promised base but meanwhile you can talk to Crew replanning (they have no idea about what is going on) or you can take the issue with your contracting company (because you are a BRK service provider, remember) Don't forget to pay everything at your expense and travel on your days off.
The nice thing though, is that instead of the usual :mad: from RYR they will tell you have a lovely day.

Guys, please wake up! you are still a contractor with nothing guaranteed at all (and that is including your base) the contract is far, far, far from being what I call really good and see what is coming to all of us after the sweet offer to all the HEL guys. But then again some people value a free lunch and water a lot more than I do.
We are not all that stupid, trust me and like I said before there quite a few now trying to get back to RYR. If I could get my old BRK contract in my 5*4 base I would be gone yesterday with my very kind regards.

Like I said before not worth the effort.

Sorry Jedy I'm kind of lost here,

Are you saying that when your rostered out of base that NAS dont roster you to get there or pay for your hotel and transport to and from the hotel or crew food (granted crew food is generally not great wherever you work but better than searching for the nearest carrefour!)? And also who pays for your uniform when you get to work? Didn't they pay for your medical too to enable you to do the job they pay you for?? Talking about pay........im sorry you mentioned that nothing is guaranteed?? So your saying that the basically 90% of of your total monthly salary you get before you even set foot on an aircraft, thats not guaranteed either? Could you maybe explain that? You'd prefer to go back to FR so you can sit on sby 4 day's (5 in a week wudnt be a first, i can prove that!) and get :mad: all pay for it? That holiday you want to book later in the year your not sure if you can afford it yet because you don't know how much money you'll make by then? Thats if you can get the leave, after its rejected to still show available next week on screwdock! Ive requested the same week twice, rejected both! How can it not be available if it's available! (again granted im aware leave cud do with some attention at NAS too) Very stable that i must admit, i can see why u would like to return!!

Do i sense correctly that your perhaps not in the base you wud prefer to be in for homelife, you'd prefer to be in base u where in with FR even tho it probably doesnt exist with NAS right now? If this is the case then i think its a bit un fair that you took the job knowing you wud have to commute to your base every week, then come on here and complain how :mad: it is (u compare it to FR!)!

Would any of this be correct? Just to put it into context thats all, if your based exactly where you want (same as u where in FR) then i may take your comments with a little less salt involved! If its the fact you get posted out of your assigned base (preferred maybe?) a lot to scandi or other bases for your week and return on day 5 i would have a little more sympathy, but maybe a little more foresight would be required, with a company in these stages its inevitable, until it gets to full capacity with its 300+ ac with 30+ (atleast) bases across europe!

Im not sure anyone cud keep you happy, you left FR because you obviously didnt like it, now your getting moved around europe (at the companies expense) and now your not happy at that!! Goodluck going back to FR, you might get your old base back after a fair stint in marrekesh if your lucky, then again, so many people are leaving because of the :mad::mad:treatment we receive you might be lucky, plus your ideal FR material! Goodluck!

P.s i'll swap with ya if you want! You can have my space!!

oh dear
 

Ok,

One more time for Go Arounds benefit, we're not comparing the current conditions to Ryanair's. Yes you would need your head examined to do that. We're talking about the near to long term future.

But like I've said before if you were in FR pre 2006 you'd know that actually it wasn't that bad a place to be. Things declined quickly during the mass expansion.

Similarities with NAS?? Some... NAS reputation preceded it as a friendly, forward thinking family type airline. Now they're trying to force HEL pilots onto a seriously substandard contract? And sending treating text messages to their own crew.Your surely not denying that Go Around?*Perhaps its a case of, oh well that's not my problem? Well it could be soon.

Yes yes the aircraft are fancy, perhaps that'll keep you warm at night if we end up with 9 days off a month?

A little bit of head in the sand I think. That wont help us with what's coming our way. Oh and point number 7. Union representation. Hmmm that'll be news to the lgw crew. BALPA may cry on about representing them, but how can they when we're all parc/arpi/confair contractors?? The company can simply dismiss them from any negotiations as legally they cant represent individual contractors in a collective agreement.

I'm not trying to be Mr doom and gloom, fingers crossed the management are just ,"trying it on". But I don't think so, either do 1300 CC's in Scando land.

I cannot for the life of me find a recruitment page for 737 Captains! Help please.

Regards

Tonker when you fill in the application page for contract pilots it asks you if you have the required hours for captain. So Norwegian.com - about us - careers - contract pilots fill in the form and it will all become clear. Have a good weekend

smooth landings,

you may be "in a cave" , but you have seen the light (as, fortunately, the HEL guys did too & got representation before this laughable offer.)

Anyone that believes BK has any intention to behave in a nicer manner towards his staff than MOL, needs to get their head out of their rectum to leave space for what is arriving next.

Thanks very much, very civilised:ok:

In the absence of a satisfactory response from NAR (Norwegian Air Resources. . .the "proposed" Finnish employer ) NASPA (the Finnish Union for NAS pilots ) has decided initially to "work to rule" in respect of non-acceptance of roster changes / no agreement to work days off.

Doubt if this will be the last of it.

Hope it isn't the last of it as I can't really see those measures having much effect.

BALPA is a waste of time and money - they ran away with their tail between their legs last time and at the recent RPG meetings, the BALPA rep said that they wouldn't openly support the RPG because of the fear of legal proceedings by RYR! IALPA are up for a fight and know RYR well enough to be effective, but forget BALPA.

Aluminium much better sticking together through a not so good union (as you describe BALPA ) than being divided in a non-unionized company and end up like in Ryanair.
Easy choice for LGW NAS guys me thinks.

NAS have settled with the Norwegian & Danish based CC. No further info at the moment, hope they got the assurances for the future they sought.

In relation to BALPA let's be fair about this shall we.

They negotiated the new entrant contract at Easy and the command contract remained untouched.

Sitting in the right or left hand seat at Easyjet in LGW on a permanent contract is not a bad place to be in terms of conditions and pay.

BALPA and and the senior guys at Easy stood firm and made it the career airline it is.

The cabin crew in Norwegian have maintained the very good terms and conditions that they are on in Scandinavia(agreement just signed) The Helsinki guys through the Finnish union are ready for action.

LGW will soon become the biggest base in Norwegian as far I'm aware. We need BALPA to ensure a sustainable career with decent terms.

No question about that.

As was briefly mentioned earlier on this thread, are BALPA able to represent LGW based pilots on contracts?

Having an upcoming start date and hopeful of a LGW base, perhaps after a stint in Spain, I am somewhat wary of all this management sabre rattling that's going on and what this means for the future.

I'm currently out in the sandpit and life is good, but it's not perfect - it's not home here and Norwegian allows the opportunity to make the move back. I have to say that I don't want to work for a company that everyone dislikes and I am concerned that Norwegian might turn into Ryanair mk2.

Perhaps it's a case of better the devil you know.

Everyone has an opinion of BALPA, presumably based on their own personal experiences. It's is unfair to cane BALPA in regards to RYANAIR/RPG, for two reasons. Firstly, BALPA came as close as anyone has or sadly is possibly going to get in organising/unifying FR Pilots. In 2006, I believe it was a slip of the tongue regarding membership numbers, and underhand strategic base movements by FR management that led to a very narrow defeat! Secondly, Ryanair uses the more 'pro-company' employment legislation of the Emerald Isle, whereby they are not (yet) legally bound to recognise and negotiate with any unions. :ugh: :mad:

Just my humble opinion. :ok:

LoCo Commotion.

I honestly don't think, and I do have slightly rose-tinted specs, that NAS will ever be like Ryanair. Sure, they are trying to reduce costs and be competitive, but the culture is completely different. They try to help their employees, and I include contractors within that statement, wherever possible. They are not (SMS aside) deliberately unkind, rude or vindictive at a personal level, unlike FR. It is just not in the same league!

Even Ryanair are beginning to realise how bad their employee relationships are. They have recently moved both the Director and Deputy Director of Flight Operations to new roles as (wait for it) Director and Deputy Director of Sales & Marketing! :} I think this speaks volumes about the two individuals (bully boys/Hatchet Men).

It's my opinion, that BALPA can negotiate on behalf of a strong, organised, unified group of Professional Aviators. That is of course assuming we are willing to become that group of people. :ok:

Does anybody know when they are going to hire for a 320???

How long does it take to upgrade in Norwegian?

Cheers

737 Jockey,

I do indeed hope that you are right. If faced with the offer of a 30% pay cut for a permanent contract in 2 years time, I won't be best impressed - even if they are nice about it! :)

Me too LoCo!

If things do turn sour, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do... Because I sure as he'll ain't going back to Ryanair, and neither am I interested in the sandpit or the cesspit (China)...

Think I'll have to sell my body... To science, no one else would pay for it! :eek:

Happy Flighting! :ok:

Despite the above valid points does anyone know what is happening with recruitment for DECs? PARC had advertised for interview dates next month but I haven't heard of anyone getting more than an application form to fill in so far. I have also heard that recruitment has been put on hold until 2015.:bored:

Contract: Instant, Core: Never

Have any contractors got into core during the past year?

Not that I'm aware of. Last Core intake was around last April I think. Subsequently, Core is now unavailable. Whether is stays closed, remains to be seen.

2012 50, 2013 36, Winter 2013-Spring 2014 I heard 10 on "temporary K area contract" stayed in Scandiland on core contract.


Number of contractors hired in this period ? 3-400 ? +/- maybe more , do the Maths.

The numbers speak for themselves :E

Are there any news regarding the major paycut in HEL?

Yeh the news is no one signed. So there is no paycut.

Contract in HEL
 

NAR Finland offers permanent employment to pilots based in Helsinki

NAR Finland enters into a collective bargaining agreement and offers permanent employment to pilots based in Helsinki

As communicated earlier, Norwegian Air Resources Ltd's daughter company NAR FI, wants to employ pilots based in Finland. NAR FI is therefore pleased to announce that it has entered into a collective bargaining agreement with a local union chapter of pilots working at the HEL base and to offer permanent employment on these terms to pilots based in Helsinki, currently employed by Confair Consultancy, Arpi Aviation and Parc Aviation. NAR´s strategy is to be aligned with the conditions in the local market in order to be competitive. We want to attract pilots who want to live and work locally.

The overall salaries and working conditions remain the same as the pilots have today. A letter with the agreement will be sent to all pilots based in Helsinki.

Looks like a good result for the Helsinki pilots.

They got organised in the Finnish pilot union and rejected the first "offer".

Now they have permanent contracts with decent terms and conditions.

It pays to get organised. Well done to the Helsinki pilots and NASPA for showing some teeth.

LGW, AGP crews take note. The time is fast approaching.

"collective bargaining agreement with a local union chapter of pilots"



The Devil is in the detail.

I believe there are implications/ramifications in "who" they negotiated with, or rather who they didn't.

Some warped little games being played out, ERC anyone ? :=

Have they signed anything yet?

I will have more details later , or tomorrow, but basically it appears that the Union the HEL pilots had the foresight to join, prior to this debacle, wasn't to NAS/NAR/Whatevers liking . . . no doubt courtesy of the fact that they have already forged a good working relationship with NPU/BALPA/SEPLA etc, and they have refused to negotiate with them.

Somehow, 3 "individuals" at HEL base have been "encouraged" to form another "Union" :hmm: which NAR have been quick to deal with & make a sensible offer.

Anyone familiar with the Ryanair "Direct negotiation with employees" scenario must be feeling a sense of deja vu here.

It seems my suspicions are not so well founded & the problem (much as during negotiations between NPU & Bjorn Kjos ) seems to be more related to failure of interpersonal skills on one or both sides ( or that old bugbear , chronic swollen ego )

A new deal has been offered, and it sounds satisfactory for those based there, but much less so for anyone coming in to the base. Unfortunately, it seems a clash of egos/personalities has resulted in NASPA ( & some of those negotiating) being replaced by Norwegian Pilot Association Finland, NPAF. Overall from what I have read, it seems a very reasonable deal ( with the caveat that new entrants to the base start on the bottom of the scale as opposed to the "jump" offered to incumbent pilots.)


Next up will be Spain then Gatwick (AGP is next, 3 yrs old in Mar2015, so I guess the moment will be postponed till then )

Not over till the fat lady sings . . . . . .

The collective of all the Unions involved in representing the employees of what is sometimes known as NAS (at other times NAN/NAR/NAI/ etc etc ) have not taken kindly (not surprisingly ) to being "frozen out" of negotiations being undertaken on behalf of 98% of the HEL pilots, this is what they have to say



"The last word is not written nor spoken in HEL, and the news about a final CLA is simply not 100% correct at this stage. A major element for a democratic negotiated CLA, is based on negotiations between your elected union representative (from majority union) and the management."

Pistols at dawn, for this, and many other failures to honour signed agreements. It will be an interesting Autumn.
Strange really, I naively thought I might have come her for (compared to RYR at least) "the quiet life". . doesn't seem likely at this stage. :(

capt. playstation: the end justifies it no?

Totally agreed, this "rot" has to be halted before "Ryanair Scandinavia" is born. . . .

Hi

On the 'new' application form for Norwegian it asks to upload a 'Certificate' - is this your licence or something else??

I think it's too late to change the management culture - it's already evident that it's every bit as bad as RYR's. But it's important that the union fights to represent the pilots - that may be the company's saving grace. Good luck guys.