Lithuanian A320s based at LHR ?
 

Anyone know what this is about? Lithuanian A320s based at LHR from March 2013:

Jobs with Avion Express

They will most likely have red tails. Does that tell you what you need to know?

Lithuanian A320s
 

How about LHR- MAN, LHR-EDI, LHR- GLA and LHR-ABZ for a starter?

There is no LHR-GLA route.

It is rather sad to see an iconic brand outsource to a foreign operator, I fear it will not be a smooth arrangement... :(

Why wouldn't they outsource the flying?

Think of all the hassle in setting up essentially a new airline just for 3 years worth of flying.
After 3 years Virgin will strip the slots for other routes.

Am I missing something or does everyone else see this coming too?

I thought the woolley pulley beardy weirdy liked to think of his airline as
Britains flag carrier, yet here we are importing cheap foreign labour.

and whatever happened to 4 engines for longhaul?:yuk:

What is it with newbies who do not read the f:mad:g posts correctly... :ugh:

Zacbranigan:
I would suggest when reading Meeb's retort the operative word is 'foreign'. It is not an issue of outsourcing but simply who it's going to! Another post above highlights the issue of foreign cheap labour. Reminds me of Indian call centres and the controversy surrounding them, there are many UK based airlines that could have done the work, but as always in this game the bottom line is money!

What is it with this forum? 10 posts in and there's a slanging match going on, and almost no discussion of the original point!

Avion Express A320
;)

Aviaon express is doing this with more companies:

WOW- Iceland
Cosmo- Spain
Now another airline in the UK

Cheap operation in northeast europe...

Yep the bearded one will no doubt already have his excuses lined up for why he will pull the routes and instead switch them to long haul which lets face it is where the money is.

EFTA etc
 

All these bloody foreigners. Lobby your MP for UK to leave EFTA, EASA and EU. That way you could control who flies in and out of UK. But hey, that would stop Easy and a few other companies from flying intra-European routes and put a few of your fellow citizens out of a job flying with continental European companies. Can't have it only your way chaps, you are part of a bigger scheme like it or not.

Virgin may want to convert these slots for LH, but since they are BA slots, given up at the order of the EU, on specific routes, I imagine that *should* not be possible.

As for contract pilots, I can't believe the VSCC are happy with this?

Pretty sure I read that the slots have to be run as is for 3 years under some EU ruling. After that time period all bets are off.

What's that sound ? That's right, it's the sound of nothing as the VSCC roll over and have their bellies tickled (again). Come on guys, show some balls and make some noise !

Contract flying
 

Can't VS find any British qualified A320 crews for these operations? Probably more to the point is that Yes there are British crews there but VS don't want to pay their salaries.

Gentlemen, reality check. VAA need feeder routes since this was mostly carried out by BMI. They now become attractive to Star Alliance as they can offer onward UK travel.

As for who does it, it was always going to done by an outside agency; so if you're in the business of making a fledgeling short haul outfit pay, or lose as little as possible on start up, then you would go for the best deal around.

As for stripping slots in 3 years time, i refer you to the above. Yes slots may be changed around and swapped with some other existing VAA long haul slots. But at the moment VAA are not in an expansion mode. Nairobi has been canned and i would guess Accra won't be far behind.

VAA need, no are desperate for a feeder outfit - fact.

Dan Air 87

Make your bet which pilots this ad in Flight International for LHR base could be aimed at? No doubt Armenians or Kenyans?

Some years ago a significant amount of the Virgin Atlantic 747 flying was outsourced to Air Atlanta Icelandic, in fact Virgin sourced the aircraft from Cathay Pacific. THis seemed to suit them, the routes they were used on did well, and they came on into the mainstream Virgin operation.

VS Pilots thoughts
 

Let them have it!

Most Pilots at VS joined for lifestyle reasons, we, expected it and were told it at our interviews. Now those lifestyle reasons will vary but I'd hazard guess that a third to half of guys live outside of 90 minutes of LHR and very few guys, mostly ex BMI live within in a sensible distance for daily short haul operations.

So, even if Right Hand Seat guys were tempted by quick commands then it would require domestic upheavel for what is maybe a short term operation. Even worse would be a situation arising that one would forced to take promotion on the Junior Fleet.

So unless the Jetlag is ruining your life, let these guys take the 4 sectors, 5 days week. Add into this mix, cark parks in different counties, some the most obnoxious security staff in the world(close tie with IAD and EWR TSA) to create a hellish daily commute. LHR capacity limits almost guarantee that this is not the start of something big so can't get too excited, let others absorb the uncertainty for what maybe a short term distraction.

What did people really think would happen given the situation and the present climate? Legacy positions with a fast track to the longhaul operation? It will be as flash in the pan as Virgin Sun Airlines. It lasted a few years too and was swept under the rug by SRB. I severely doubt this is a long term commitment, no matter how much I'd like it to be. BA aren't exactly ****ting themselves over the prospect.

I have it on reasonably good authority that BA are going to nip this in the bud fairly sharpish. They know VA are pretty hard up. I hear a few months of heavily discounted/ free fares should do it ....

What then ?

Assessment
 

Anyone been invited to an assessment with Avion Express for this position/know whats involved in the assessment?!?!?

Branson's principle is to give any new venture 12 months and then review it to see if it is worthwhile. He has had a significant number of ventures which have not lasted the course, but some do of course (like the original VA).

As the domestic flights start in April 2013, BA really needs to hammer them in January-April 2014.

BA to put a sale on LHR - ABZ for a few months to convince VA to give up a Heathrow slot? Hmmmm

Or do you mean a sale on all long haul routes that they compete with Virgin to be discounted. VA still have hundreds of millions in cash, despite their appalling losses.

There may be convincing arguments that Virgin may not be with us by the end of the decade, but "a few months"?

Sean Dell

Interesting thought you have heard but with the huge losses the BA are caught up in because of the massive losses at iberia (IAG) are you sure they can afford to just "heavily reduce/free flights"????

Even BA's pockets are not that deep with Iberia losing 2 million a day!!

cheers

fc

Point of order:

As has been pointed out at length and many times in the IAG thread: BA and Iberia are still separate companies. BA are not financially responsible for any losses made by Iberia ( and vice versa).

To clarify, I have a very limited, bordering on non existent knowledge of corporate law.

How are BA completely isolated from the fortunes of Iberia and parent company IAG or vice versa?

I didn't follow the merger closely so an explanation would be appreciated.

If I was a Virgin pilot, I would be in attack-dog mode right now. This is clearly a tactic to break the union and should be fought at all costs.

Bishop, you were obviously not privy to last summers union activity.

The Attack Dog had its lead shoved up its arse and was kicked out of the house and made to sleep in the cold kennel forever more.

Currently Virgin does not have a functioning union, BALPA is present in name only, present to do the companies bidding for them. Until the PPU comes online, VS pilots have to accept what they are given and be thankful for it.

Any better suggestions on a post card........

BA and Iberia are not merged - IAG is a holding company that owns two airlines that are run seperately. There's nothing to stop IAG buying other operators and running those seperately as well.....

Ultimately it is the holding company who'll bite the bullet on the combined group. Correct BA and IB are separate entities but at the end of the day either one could bring the other one down. IAG is the listed company on both stock markets and all profits and losses are quoted as one combined company.
It doesn't stop IAG selling BA or IB to the highest bidder though, or maybe a separate relisting on the UK or Spanish markets.
What if something horrible happened? For example, what if IB went bankrupt? If the holding company itself didn't co-sign on IBs debt, it isn't liable for the loss. Instead, IAG would record an approx £2 billion write-off in its net worth as a capital loss on IAGs shares of IB. That alone would destabilise confidence in IAG running BA.

Do Avion Express also operate any A319's at present? VAA website says the LHR-MAN route will be served by one. So if Avion run the Scottish routes will someone else being doing the MAN one?

I do note wikipedia says Avion may be receiving one soon, but that was probably added by someone on here! ;)

A319 and A320 in there current fleet
 

A very brave move to enlist a "lithuanian" registered fleet. It nearly cost Monarch their reputation! The press very nearly shot the company down in flames after a couple of very high profile incidents in the Midlands. They couldn't get rid of them quick enough after just a couple of months of operations! This kind of out-sourcing is very high risk commercial stuff - You only have to check the complaints on websites such as Tripadvisor for example! Just pause for thought - Lithuanian cabin crew mixing it up with high level UK business people commuting domestically to London??? I don't think so! For BA it's a "win -win"! They'll be laughing at VS domestic won't they?

They have advertised for LHR based crew including hosties so they might get some locals, but yes, a very big gamble & doubt it will work, Beardie has taken his eye off the ball with this one. :ooh:

So the Bearded one now pays Aer Lingus to do the flights for him?

The Bearded one was awarded the slots with no ability/intention of operating them anyway?

The Bearded one pays someone else to fly the routes for 3 years , before reverting the slots back to his Long Haul?

Avion Express plan disappeared into thin air thank goodness.....

Aer Lingus will do a great job.......but should have been awarded it themselves initially anyway......but anything to keep the Bearded one happy, and keep him from a tantrum over his train set right?

If its not for Virgin, could it be for another operator at LHR....?????
 

Maybe avion express are going to be operating for another carrier at LHR........ who knows, there vacancies page never suggested at any stage that they were going to be operating for Virgin, so time will tell.