Yep back to recruitment.......

So.... EasyJet is now a feeder airline for Monarch

It is, very much so at the moment, what's your point?

What you need to ask yourself is would you have REALLY left easy specifically for Monarch had you had a permanent contract? Would you advise someone in that position to do so?

The point is immaterial B&B - permanent contracts are not being offered, and so EZY will lose as a result. If they wish to retain the services of flexi-crew, they will have to adapt, just like we have all had to adapt to the follies of RYR and EZY and their woefully inadequate cadet schemes in the past. What goes around eventually come around.

Yea but BALPA is "keeping the powder dry for the real fights ahead..." :eek:

This is something we've heard for the past 5-7 years.....

There have been hundreds offered to anyone willing to go to mainland Europe - you're either not in Easy and believing the crap on pprune or you're just being dishonest. As a fact, 100% of the people I know that are going to Monarch snubbed a mainland European contract with easyJet because they wanted to be INSTANTLY gratified in terms of being in the UK and are inflexible. Believe me, many have made the concious decision and irrational gamble to stay on flexicrew. It's been their choice.

EZY need to adapt then if they wish not to lose employees to Monarch. If someone decides not to stay at EZY, and go to Monarch because they can be based in the UK, on an arguably better contract, then why not ? everyone has there own desires and i would certainly advise someone, especially flexi-crew, who wish to better their situation AND remain in the UK to move over.

Why would easy worry about 'losing' these people?

Because it means they will have to recruit more (flexi ?) crew, which will mean additional cost, reduction in crewing flexibility in relation to line training new crew, loss of experience levels to bridge the gap when considering suitable candidates for upgrade etc. - list could go on am sure.

Why not offer decent terms and conditions from the start ? retain employee loyalty, save some costs long-term, have crew that can see a career progression path, a happy workforce will reap far better rewards in the bigger picture than the short-sighted vision EZY and others seem to nurture. You tend not to hear huge amounts ordinarily about Monarch because in the main i have a very strong suspicion the crews are very happy and motivated.

I think you need to stop confusing what you want and a company needs. Your view on things is based on envy and incorrect information. No one from CTC flying for easy is paying to fly. They paid or their fATPL as i am sure you did, some have contributed/ bonded towards their TR as that was the offer but all have been paid for every hour that they have flown an easyJet Airbus.

If you won't go abroad then accept your lot. It's not easyJets fault that the UK market is crap - its the Labour parties, BALPAs and Ryanairs.

B&B,

I can honestly say that I would advise permanent easy guys to move to Monarch and I did in fact leave a permanent continental contract to move.

There are reasons to be argued all day as to the merits of both companies and I am sure that easy suits some perfectly. Personally, the take take attitude, and low morale at easy wore me down. Monarch is far more humane. On the whole decisions are made based on what it right or wrong rather than what is legal.

To sum it up briefly, Monarch is a much happier place to be. 99% of people would go out of their way to do a favour for the company because they want it to succeed. Can you honestly say that about easy?

I'm sure the job security argument will be thrown back and easy's record breaking profits championed, but I have not regretted my decision for a second, for me it was well worth the risk and I would wholeheartedly encourage anyone who asked me to make the move.

BlackandBrown
 

You are full of :mad:. It is Easyjets fault as much as anyone else for this sorry mess. The Easyjet route is a CTC integrated course at a cost of £73425.07 plus another 9 or 10 grand for an an Airbus type rating. And that is the only route into Easyjet as a cadet. You then in Easyjet get paid 1200 quid per month for the first "6 to 8 months" and then go on a crap Flexicrew contract.

Any FR or EZY pilot applying to MON is trying getting out of the low cost crap.

And believe me it is crap because I have been there. And guess what?

I got out.

Best thing I ever did.

Stop talking :mad:
Please.

Terrible. No wonder the EZJ share price is sky high! Out of interest, what terms do the direct entry CTC cadets join Monarch on? Surely not the same...

Oh man, Mr Arachnid, why is there no like button on this forum? :ok:

Really ? I beg to differ. It's this very reason that the rot has set in. I admit that the current marketplace does seem to demand that for anyone now wishing to move onwards and upwards at any meaningful rate, this is one of a handful of options open to new cadets, but I cannot agree with the principle of it. It's part of the very reason that companies like EZY and RYR have succeeded with their respective low cost models. These new pilots are effectively subsidising the passengers' ticket costs. It's akin to booking a taxi from the pub to your home, paying the fare cost, and then driving yourself home - you wouldn't accept it, you wouldn't do it. It's just cashing in on a desire to fly. It ruins the marketplace for all pilots ultimately, and anyone who has attempted to build their career by following tried and tested routes, working their way up as air taxi, instructor, turboprop etc. will be cuurently at a disadvantage as the skills and experience they have built up is seemingly worth bugger all to most operators these days.

In summary, I wholeheartedly stand behind any flexi-crew moving to Monarch and would support it as by moving to such an operator, they are at least in some way undoing a little of the damage of SSTR by abandoning such poor employers that cash in on newbies, and if enough migrate, CTC/EZY, RYR et all will have to adapt, or else lose the ability to successfully crew their respective aircraft. And this will lose revenue in the end, maybe not today, but it will tomorrow. Monarch are one of the very few employers, in my opinion, that seem to have grasped the fact that by using proper Terms/Conditions, the employee is valued, and trust me, if you have happy employees, subject to unforseen issues, invariably you will have a company with a good reputation in their chosen marketplace, and they should suceed and have sustainability. Bravo Monarch, finally an employer with balls.

1. Monarch have it agreed that 20% of the FOs at any time are on 85% contracts through the union.

2. As spider man said, all cadets join Monarch on exactly the same Ts and Cs.

3. If you didn't like the Easy scheme and felt it was immoral, why did you do it?

4. Your analogy making out that we subsidise the passengers tickets is crap. It infers that if one thing happens, another will because YOU say it will. Your opinion isn't evidence.

No, it encourages more SSTR cadets to follow such a path. Every CTC cadet knows the easyjet deal is terrible... They only accept from the outset in the knowledge that another operator (BA, MON, middle east) offering real employment terms will take them on very soon after EZY (whilst damaging other operators trying to compete). Not one cadet has the intention of staying at EZY.

Every cadet poached is simply replaced by another SSTR cadet at an increasing rate. The ctc susage factory can produce far more cadets than other airlines can poach. Stop taking these guys and let them fester in land of orange... The only way to stop SSTR racket is to break the career chain and stop recruiting and encouraing them! Harsh but true.

Yes, with loan interest, etc. the total financial burden for the cadets is circ £120k with course & license fees, living costs, TR, etc etc. Goodluck getting a mortgage with that level of personal debt.

Cadets know the score when they sign up. I'm fed up flying with guys moaning telling me I don't know what it is like.

I do...I had to scrape around on jack all money barely paying the interest on loans, living off credit cards, but guess what...I knew I'd be skint from the outset, accepted it, kept my head down and got on with it.

Aviation owes nobody a favour.

The comment that not one cadet would stay at easyJet maybe true but I would say any cadet who is sat waiting in the CTC pool for a placement would sell their granny to get in the RHS at easyJet and there lies the problem.

Cadets generally know they are in for a bit of a shafting when they sign up and its a means to an end to getting the job they really want. The level and type of shafting, however is a bit of an unknown.

Not so at the moment, every single F/O who wants to be full time is full time, every new recruit will be full time from the off. I'm sure the agreement is still valid, there is a financial incentive to be on the Part year work and you are guaranteed a salary every month. I actually enjoyed being paid to go travelling for a couple of months and would probably do it again voluntarily in the future

Except they don't pay for their type rating and uniform, are covered by the same scheduling agreement as everyone else and are employed on a permanent contract in the UK at the end of their first 6 months.

MaxPower2011
 

Precisely. Night and day compared to FR or EZY.

This whole thread is getting tedious! If you want to discuss the merits of CTC and Flexicrew then surely a Monarch recruiting thread is not the place to do it.

For info I understand that places to non type rated pilots including some ex military have been offered on a course starting in October. Another rumour doing the rounds internally is that we will not be reopening the recruitment portal soon as we have over 1000 suitable applicants already. That said it may well be that more recruitment will be needed next year. A MAJOR plus in getting an interview is a recommendation from someone in the company.

The interviews are still very old school and consist of a 'chat' with a couple of management pilots.

As has been said above as of this November there will not a single FO at Monarch on a part time contract who has not volunteered to do so.

There is still no announcement about the future of the A330 fleet but this must be imminent, the possibility of requiring a 2 year amortisation period following A330 conversion has been mooted and is causing some consternation among senior FOs.

As for the Easy vs Monarch debate it's horses for courses. Some years ago we lost guys to Easy as they were looking for regional uk/European bases and a fixed roster. Now guys are coming to us as we have permanent contracts, some long haul etc.

I have no experience of Easy and unlike B&B will not demean myself by slagging other people off. What I can say is that on the whole Monarch is a friendly, inclusive place to work. Crewing, despite being under great pressure recently, remain friendly and accommodating wherever possible. A hard wotking BALPA Cc supported by very high membership levels have secured us T&Cs that are amongst the best in the country Pilot management are approachable and most importantly I enjoy going to work with a great bunch of lads and lasses.

It's not always a bed of roses but I'm certainly happy where I am.

Congrats to all those who have been offered a course date and good luck to those being interviewed, I look forward to sharing a beer with you some time. To those who have not been offered an interview, if you know someone in the company who may be willing to give you a reference then I would suggest giving them a bell and offering to buy them a drink or two.

I'm not applying to easyjet!!

Could anyone possibly enlighten me as to what one could expect in the interview at monarch.

Many thanks

Feel free to pm.

Spottyemm,

Excellent post there me old. I am glad this thread is getting back on track at last. As an ex mil type, all I have heard from inside Monarch are positive messages. Cannot comment on easy or ryanair but I am hopeful as airline recruitment starts again, we shall see the end of these crappy contracts that everyone mentions. Maybe it is time for the pilots to get the pay they deserve.:ok:

Long haul questions...
 

What is the status of long haul flying at Monarch? I know Monarch operate older A300-600Rs and several A330s.

Does Monarch still plan to add long haul aircraft (i.e., 787s now cancelled) or have those long haul plans been shelved? The older A300s will probably leave in the next few years. Will Monarch retain long haul flying in the mix or will it focus more on Euro-centric LCC flying?

Also, for a recent newhire on the A320/21, how long before you could get qualified on the A330 and start flying some long haul flights (assuming they remain)? 3-4 years?

If people are thinking of coming to Monarch they need to think short haul.....

Lh
 

Monarch are going Sh, the 330's are on their way out. We get rid of our first A300 in October and the rest of the 'LH' aircraft will be gone over the next couple of years. Order of probably A320 family to be announced soon, possibly at Farnborough. First TV advert aired today, 2 new bases, 90+ FOs, 40 commands, Monarch is on the way up again. We have top 5 T and C's, good bunch of guys on the whole, friendly environment to work in. It's been mentioned that we have lost some FO's recently, we have. Some of those gone would now be sat in the left hand seat. They have made the choice due to a number of reasons but hating it at Monarch is not one of them. The big choice to be made coming to Monarch or staying at Monarch is whether you will be happy doing 5 on 2 off to Spain for the rest of your career. The next choice to be made is when you are 50 do you want to be worrying about Monarch not being around any more. Some of our guys have just gone through this and it has prompted some guys to go to more 'stable' airlines, but lets face it you could find yourself in this position at 90% of airlines. Don't come here thinking you will be flying the 330 in a few years even if it does stay currently it stands at 6 years to get on it. If these two factors don't concern you the come on in, we enjoy our time here and the laws of probability say that when I retire Monarch will still be here.

New to MON
 

having read the previous threads with interest, I'd just like to add my 2p worth.

I've recently joined monarch (Feb of this year) from another UK Charter Airline and all I have to say about them is positive.

Everything from the initial interview to working on the line is nothing but an enjoyable experience. The Management have been frank and open, the Training Department friendly and very helpful and the staff as a whole are great. There have been opportunities to move base temporarily and having initially been taken on with a 9-3 contract, all of us who joined this year have been offered the full 12 month contract.

It's a good company to work for and yes, it has it's issues with stability or job security, but show me any UK airline (other than BA) that hasn't. Overall I'm flying less and getting paid more than before, so surely thats a good thing!

Did some already got an invitation or a rejection email following their online application or are all the invitations/rejections being send out at the moment pre online application form? This just to get an idea how far the recruitment team is.

I've not heard anything regarding the result of my application, it's still showing as an active application on their e-site.:{

The last correspondence received, almost a fortnight ago, was from the recruitment team apologising for the delay as they've understandably been inundated with applications.

I've not flown an aircraft bigger than 14 tonnes, currently flying six tonnes. Obviously I'm not worthy of Monarch damn it! Tears welling up and applies to the middle east universe like all the other misfits.

Is that a wind-up mesh..? That's only 8 days off a month..!

10 days off per month, 9 day off in peak 3 months. Day off is 2100L --> 0900 enclosing two local nights (or less than 2000 --> 0800L)

Obviously often days where you aren't working can't comply with the above so these will be 'rest days.' So you will get these days off min and also generally a number of rest days.

Any non type rated guys/gals getting a call? And if so what kind of experience?

Where are the 75's based?

Not a wind up, roughly speaking this is what you will be doing. Our 320 guys do max hours, slightly quiter in winter. As stated we currently have 9 days off in summer...

757's are on their way out over next couple of years. At the moment we have one working summer out of Edn and the other few work mainly from Man/Lgw

Be a real shme if you loose the 757s and 330s...got a few mates on these fleets...they love it. Short haul good to be in your own bed at night but not much else.

Does anyone have information on the interview?

I take it some interviews have been conducted this week, how'd they go? what were they like? & has anyone heard anything yet? I got my app in 2 days after it opened and am yet to hear anything!

The interview is a management chat, trying to suss out if they can sit next to you for 12 hours. A couple of HR questions (give us a time when you have shown leadership, a time when you have dealt with an emergency situation etc) and a couple of tech questions - a couple of acronyms, what they mean etc and also detailed questions on one area (hydraulics in my case). Then a Q&A time and a bit about the job, where you can expect to be based etc. Overall straight forward and no messing unlike the BA interview process.

Interview/not rated
 

I have just under 2000 hrs total.... had an interview about 2 weeks ago, heard the next day I had the job....... At the minute gainfully employed on the Avrorj... My start date end of Oct... A320/21