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-   -   Monarch Anyone? (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/486524-monarch-anyone.html)

MaxPower2011 6th Jul 2012 21:59

Yep back to recruitment.......

So.... EasyJet is now a feeder airline for Monarch

BlackandBrown 7th Jul 2012 08:12

It is, very much so at the moment, what's your point?

What you need to ask yourself is would you have REALLY left easy specifically for Monarch had you had a permanent contract? Would you advise someone in that position to do so?

OutsideCAS 7th Jul 2012 09:09

The point is immaterial B&B - permanent contracts are not being offered, and so EZY will lose as a result. If they wish to retain the services of flexi-crew, they will have to adapt, just like we have all had to adapt to the follies of RYR and EZY and their woefully inadequate cadet schemes in the past. What goes around eventually come around.

CaptainProp 7th Jul 2012 14:37

Yea but BALPA is "keeping the powder dry for the real fights ahead..." :eek:

This is something we've heard for the past 5-7 years.....

BlackandBrown 7th Jul 2012 16:25


The point is immaterial B&B - permanent contracts are not being offered, and so EZY will lose as a result.
There have been hundreds offered to anyone willing to go to mainland Europe - you're either not in Easy and believing the crap on pprune or you're just being dishonest. As a fact, 100% of the people I know that are going to Monarch snubbed a mainland European contract with easyJet because they wanted to be INSTANTLY gratified in terms of being in the UK and are inflexible. Believe me, many have made the concious decision and irrational gamble to stay on flexicrew. It's been their choice.

OutsideCAS 7th Jul 2012 16:37

EZY need to adapt then if they wish not to lose employees to Monarch. If someone decides not to stay at EZY, and go to Monarch because they can be based in the UK, on an arguably better contract, then why not ? everyone has there own desires and i would certainly advise someone, especially flexi-crew, who wish to better their situation AND remain in the UK to move over.

BlackandBrown 7th Jul 2012 16:48

Why would easy worry about 'losing' these people?

OutsideCAS 7th Jul 2012 16:56

Because it means they will have to recruit more (flexi ?) crew, which will mean additional cost, reduction in crewing flexibility in relation to line training new crew, loss of experience levels to bridge the gap when considering suitable candidates for upgrade etc. - list could go on am sure.

Why not offer decent terms and conditions from the start ? retain employee loyalty, save some costs long-term, have crew that can see a career progression path, a happy workforce will reap far better rewards in the bigger picture than the short-sighted vision EZY and others seem to nurture. You tend not to hear huge amounts ordinarily about Monarch because in the main i have a very strong suspicion the crews are very happy and motivated.

BlackandBrown 7th Jul 2012 18:18

I think you need to stop confusing what you want and a company needs. Your view on things is based on envy and incorrect information. No one from CTC flying for easy is paying to fly. They paid or their fATPL as i am sure you did, some have contributed/ bonded towards their TR as that was the offer but all have been paid for every hour that they have flown an easyJet Airbus.

If you won't go abroad then accept your lot. It's not easyJets fault that the UK market is crap - its the Labour parties, BALPAs and Ryanairs.

MaxPower2011 7th Jul 2012 18:56

B&B,

I can honestly say that I would advise permanent easy guys to move to Monarch and I did in fact leave a permanent continental contract to move.

There are reasons to be argued all day as to the merits of both companies and I am sure that easy suits some perfectly. Personally, the take take attitude, and low morale at easy wore me down. Monarch is far more humane. On the whole decisions are made based on what it right or wrong rather than what is legal.

To sum it up briefly, Monarch is a much happier place to be. 99% of people would go out of their way to do a favour for the company because they want it to succeed. Can you honestly say that about easy?

I'm sure the job security argument will be thrown back and easy's record breaking profits championed, but I have not regretted my decision for a second, for me it was well worth the risk and I would wholeheartedly encourage anyone who asked me to make the move.

antonov09 7th Jul 2012 20:51

BlackandBrown
 
You are full of :mad:. It is Easyjets fault as much as anyone else for this sorry mess. The Easyjet route is a CTC integrated course at a cost of 73425.07 plus another 9 or 10 grand for an an Airbus type rating. And that is the only route into Easyjet as a cadet. You then in Easyjet get paid 1200 quid per month for the first "6 to 8 months" and then go on a crap Flexicrew contract.

Any FR or EZY pilot applying to MON is trying getting out of the low cost crap.

And believe me it is crap because I have been there. And guess what?

I got out.

Best thing I ever did.

Stop talking :mad:
Please.




spider_man 7th Jul 2012 23:52


another 9 or 10 grand for an an Airbus type rating. And that is the only route into Easyjet as a cadet. You then in Easyjet get paid 1200 quid per month for the first "6 to 8 months"
Terrible. No wonder the EZJ share price is sky high! Out of interest, what terms do the direct entry CTC cadets join Monarch on? Surely not the same...

Dried ears 8th Jul 2012 00:11

Oh man, Mr Arachnid, why is there no like button on this forum? :ok:

OutsideCAS 8th Jul 2012 06:01


No one from CTC flying for easy is paying to fly
Really ? I beg to differ. It's this very reason that the rot has set in. I admit that the current marketplace does seem to demand that for anyone now wishing to move onwards and upwards at any meaningful rate, this is one of a handful of options open to new cadets, but I cannot agree with the principle of it. It's part of the very reason that companies like EZY and RYR have succeeded with their respective low cost models. These new pilots are effectively subsidising the passengers' ticket costs. It's akin to booking a taxi from the pub to your home, paying the fare cost, and then driving yourself home - you wouldn't accept it, you wouldn't do it. It's just cashing in on a desire to fly. It ruins the marketplace for all pilots ultimately, and anyone who has attempted to build their career by following tried and tested routes, working their way up as air taxi, instructor, turboprop etc. will be cuurently at a disadvantage as the skills and experience they have built up is seemingly worth bugger all to most operators these days.

In summary, I wholeheartedly stand behind any flexi-crew moving to Monarch and would support it as by moving to such an operator, they are at least in some way undoing a little of the damage of SSTR by abandoning such poor employers that cash in on newbies, and if enough migrate, CTC/EZY, RYR et all will have to adapt, or else lose the ability to successfully crew their respective aircraft. And this will lose revenue in the end, maybe not today, but it will tomorrow. Monarch are one of the very few employers, in my opinion, that seem to have grasped the fact that by using proper Terms/Conditions, the employee is valued, and trust me, if you have happy employees, subject to unforseen issues, invariably you will have a company with a good reputation in their chosen marketplace, and they should suceed and have sustainability. Bravo Monarch, finally an employer with balls.

BlackandBrown 8th Jul 2012 08:45

1. Monarch have it agreed that 20% of the FOs at any time are on 85% contracts through the union.

2. As spider man said, all cadets join Monarch on exactly the same Ts and Cs.

3. If you didn't like the Easy scheme and felt it was immoral, why did you do it?

4. Your analogy making out that we subsidise the passengers tickets is crap. It infers that if one thing happens, another will because YOU say it will. Your opinion isn't evidence.

spider_man 8th Jul 2012 09:43


In summary, I wholeheartedly stand behind any flexi-crew moving to Monarch and would support it as by moving to such an operator, they are at least in some way undoing a little of the damage of SSTR
No, it encourages more SSTR cadets to follow such a path. Every CTC cadet knows the easyjet deal is terrible... They only accept from the outset in the knowledge that another operator (BA, MON, middle east) offering real employment terms will take them on very soon after EZY (whilst damaging other operators trying to compete). Not one cadet has the intention of staying at EZY.

Every cadet poached is simply replaced by another SSTR cadet at an increasing rate. The ctc susage factory can produce far more cadets than other airlines can poach. Stop taking these guys and let them fester in land of orange... The only way to stop SSTR racket is to break the career chain and stop recruiting and encouraing them! Harsh but true.

Yes, with loan interest, etc. the total financial burden for the cadets is circ 120k with course & license fees, living costs, TR, etc etc. Goodluck getting a mortgage with that level of personal debt.

Jet A1 8th Jul 2012 13:26

Cadets know the score when they sign up. I'm fed up flying with guys moaning telling me I don't know what it is like.

I do...I had to scrape around on jack all money barely paying the interest on loans, living off credit cards, but guess what...I knew I'd be skint from the outset, accepted it, kept my head down and got on with it.

Aviation owes nobody a favour.

The comment that not one cadet would stay at easyJet maybe true but I would say any cadet who is sat waiting in the CTC pool for a placement would sell their granny to get in the RHS at easyJet and there lies the problem.

MaxPower2011 8th Jul 2012 13:57

Cadets generally know they are in for a bit of a shafting when they sign up and its a means to an end to getting the job they really want. The level and type of shafting, however is a bit of an unknown.


1. Monarch have it agreed that 20% of the FOs at any time are on 85% contracts through the union.
Not so at the moment, every single F/O who wants to be full time is full time, every new recruit will be full time from the off. I'm sure the agreement is still valid, there is a financial incentive to be on the Part year work and you are guaranteed a salary every month. I actually enjoyed being paid to go travelling for a couple of months and would probably do it again voluntarily in the future


2. As spider man said, all cadets join Monarch on exactly the same Ts and Cs.
Except they don't pay for their type rating and uniform, are covered by the same scheduling agreement as everyone else and are employed on a permanent contract in the UK at the end of their first 6 months.

antonov09 8th Jul 2012 14:04

MaxPower2011
 
Precisely. Night and day compared to FR or EZY.


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