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-   -   Monarch Anyone? (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/486524-monarch-anyone.html)

Stone Cold II 27th Jul 2012 11:26

Just for the record in terms of load factors. Load factors mean nothing if you do not know what the yield for each seat is. Monarch or EZY could be selling there seats for 10 each and if they did they would be loss making.

I do not know if Monarch are making a profit or not but to say they have 90% load factor means nothing if they are not making a profit on the seats sold. I could use one of Monarch A330 and fill every seat on it to Malaga and charge 10p per seat and say hey look guys I have 100% load factor but I would be out of business very quickly.

I wish Monarch well as they do offer a decent contract for the new guys. I'm sure they will be around for a few more years yet.

Artie Fufkin 27th Jul 2012 13:24

Buzz L, the "speculation" comes from the rumour that when the final tranch of the bailout was handed over, Monarch management were allegedly told to make this bailout work and not to expect any more.

And they have now implemented an aggressive expansion plan, that they have brought forward from the planned timing in a greedy attempt to take Baby's capacity. Is this really ideal economic conditions for large scale expansion of an airline? And drachma-geddon is still yet to rip the Mediterranean economy apart.

Their main competitors all have significantly lower costs and much higher brand recognition. The trend is towards consolidation and larger companies dominating.

Without doubt, the entire pilot community wants to see companies like Monarch prosper. It unfortunately doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to see another outcome.

New T2 Office 27th Jul 2012 16:35

''the "speculation" comes from the rumour that''

and therin lies your problem...........rumour, speculation, etc, etc.............

However as that is the 3rd word of this websites title, I suppose it is appropriate really..........

My only advice is dont believe all the rumours you hear! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

fmgc 27th Jul 2012 17:58

And they have now implemented an aggressive expansion plan, that they have brought forward from the planned timing in a greedy attempt to take Baby's capacity. Is this really ideal economic conditions for large scale expansion of an airline? And drachma-geddon is still yet to rip the Mediterranean economy apart.
This would quite possibly be a massive boon for Monarch and a disaster for EZY & FR.

If Greece and Spain (Monarch's main destinations) pull out of the Euro then they will immediately devalue their currency, making it very cheap for holidays, Monarch's market!!!

Ezy & FR I understand take more money in Euros than they do in Sterling and rely much more on pax originating in the Euro zone. So the break up of the Euro will effect them massively.

And they have now implemented an aggressive expansion plan, that they have brought forward from the planned timing in a greedy attempt to take Baby's capacity.
That is very cynical and completely out of order. Somebody was going to step in, FR & Jet2 tried but were too late. I wonder if the Baby pilots that we are offering jobs to on some of the best T&Cs in the industry would agree with that statement.

Load factors mean nothing if you do not know what the yield for each seat is.
That is a very valid point, and in the past the industry has been selling seats too cheaply and so yields have been awful. Fact is that this summer has seen a significant increase in yields for all airlines, somewhere in the region of 12%.

Plus those load factors mentioned were for a period when ticket prices are almost at their highest (the shoulder months) so yields almost at their highest.

Monarch also do very well on inflight and ancillary sales that the competition doesn't enjoy nearly as much.

beauport potato man 27th Jul 2012 18:29

Buzz Lightyear

No family as business minded and as savvy as the Mantegazza family will continue to bailout loss making ventures.
We all know they're wealthy but they never got there by funding a load of 'Monarch' like businesses.

MaxPower2011 27th Jul 2012 22:03

You could also argue that no family as savvy as the Mantegazza would have injected the amounts they did last year if it wasn't a worthwhile investment.

McBruce 27th Jul 2012 22:49

Only when cadets categorically refuse to go into flexi-crew that the light at the end of the tunnel will appear.
Only when the members inside their highly unionised airline lobby for this practise to be stopped, then light will appear at the end of the tunnel. Asking or waiting for unemployed individuals to unite and refuse a job, then you will be waiting a long time! This can only be stopped from the inside.

Artie Fufkin 27th Jul 2012 22:53

They have now adopted a scheduled services from the UK to the Mediterranean model, setting themselves against Ryanair, Easy and Jet2. No more competing in the charter market that has seen them do so well over the years.

They can't charge any extra than competitors, but have significantly higher costs. In an industry with wafer thin margins, its never going to work. You can almost hear Alan Sugar sitting in a boardroom saying "basic business principles seem to have gone out the window".

As was said earlier in this thread it seems great being offered old school terms and conditions, but if your competing against O'Leary, they'll be for nothing when the competition has you for breakfast. Remember the first class passenger in Titanic refusing a life jacket, stating he was dressed in his finest and prepared to go down as a gentleman?

tchaikovsky 28th Jul 2012 00:09


Your tone is all too familiar. You have to remember you're a pilot. You fly 737's. You're not a business man, not an economist, not an analyst, not an accountant, not an industry expert. You read the business pages of the newspapers. In fact you have not the foggiest idea as to the internal workings of Monarch Airlines. I've flown with people like you and I have learnt to nod along. You're a know it all and you appear to take pleasure in trying to scare monger people with your ill informed opinions. Why? What are you trying to achieve?

The fact of the matter is Monarch are offering c90 permanent, full time well paid jobs. Who else is offering that opportunity in the UK at the moment.

To all the know it alls like Artie, remember your place.

student88 28th Jul 2012 01:09

Lovely warm things like allocated seating, sweets, hot meals and bjs from the chief pilot aren't going to stop and airline going bust. I would hate to see them go, lots of friends work for them, but I really wouldn't jump from EZY to MON, even if you paid me.

Sit tight and bite the pillow for as long as you can.

bigjarv 28th Jul 2012 02:31

Has everyone forgotten the massive contracts that most permanent european easy first officers and captains are on? They are on some of the absolute best in the European industry. Same in Ryanair. What proportion of the workforce is made up of flexi? Any idea? Me either! Put my hat on a large proportion of the workforce are on euro contracts beating Ba and monarch terms and conditions hands down. I don't know the figures and nor do most so can we just stop this pointless chatter!!!

G-SPOTs Lost 28th Jul 2012 05:55

Had to use FR/BA/EZY/MON for positioning to and from an EU based aircraft.

MON invariably are more expensive but not by anywhere near as much as you'd think, it's also the case that later last minute bookings are much more affordable with MON than anybody else.

Never been on a MON flight which wasn't full.

Last minute positioning on FR for 300 into the EU just makes you feel robbed, Didn't end up going on any other website if MON was something near price wise.

Doesn't take much extra per seat to cover the additional costs with MON and I for one would happily pay it.

New T2 Office 28th Jul 2012 15:16


Couldn't have put it any better myself.......you've summed up these 'virtual airline bosses' perfectly......its so frustrating wading through their worthless posts to find anything worth reading!!!!

Alexander de Meerkat 28th Jul 2012 15:53

There is no dispute that Monarch is a great company to work for, but that is not really the issue - long term viability (i.e. a full career for a young man in his mid-20s) is where my doubt lies. I think we all know it is impossible to predict the future in the airline world, and far wiser punters than me have got it seriously wrong. Nonetheless, my own belief is that they cannot compete directly with Ryanair or easyJet on their core routes, but we shall just have to see. I do, however, like the active efforts Monarch are making to expand, and it is good news for the whole industry - I genuinely wise them well.

Sprinkles - please excuse my harsh tone. My excuse is that I was writing at around 3.30am and was worn out! I fully understand why you have made the choice you have and hope it all works out well. I am very frustrated that our own management have created a situation that you felt you needed to leave - it is really inexcusable.

A key element of the discussions in the last few pages has been over the wisdom of easyJet cadets leaving to join Monarch. It has diverged into a discussion about who is doing well and who is not. I have heard the rumours but frankly do not know the whole truth about Monarch's current financial status. I do, however, know how easyJet is doing. For those interested in easyJet's current financial well-being, may I draw your attention to the following:


I would humbly suggest that any company coming up with these figures in the current economic environment is doing very well indeed. We all know these things can change very quickly, and no one is crowing about how great easyJet is. Nonetheless, to make the decision to leave a company producing these kind of figures without joining a national carrier is a gutsy move indeed, and not one I would hand-on-heart recommend.

sk8erboi 28th Jul 2012 22:04

Nonetheless, to make the decision to leave a company producing these kind of figures without joining a national carrier is a gutsy move indeed, and not one I would hand-on-heart recommend.
I strongly disagree. Whilst not having an iron in this fire, bar an application with Mon, one has to wonder which is the best option for the CTC type ezy pilot. Winter is fast approaching, when living becomes more expensive and the typical ezy fo's pay drops massively. Providing they still have a contract at all and haven't become too expensive for their own good.
Where to be? A company that still pays and looks after me, or the one which drops me as soon as I may not be needed/can be replaced by someone cheaper.
You say leaving a company producing these figures is a bad idea. Why? Especially when those figures are being produced by making the right hand seat a figure in the balance sheet, to be exploited for as much profit as possible, at the fiscal and emotional expense of said pilot.
It's not as though it's a real career airline anyway. Not with MAD closing, LIS opening etc. Anyone who thinks they can tough out the next few years for Nirvana at the end of the tunnel is deluded. The other good contracts will be next for the axe.
Anyone on an ezy rip off FO deal would be best served looking after no 1 in the short term. Ezy don't look long term so why should you. You owe it to yourself after all the pain to get where you are now to earn a decent living and be treated like a human being. I bet MON skippers look out for their colleagues and don't just turn a blind eye to any I humane treatment handed down to them. They seem like one of the few decent employers left in the uk.

I expect to now be shouted down saying I must be an ezy reject etc. in advance I'm not.

NordicMan 28th Jul 2012 23:45

Well said ADM. Once you have a permanent contract with Ezy I don't see where else you would rather go. I try not to get involved in this cadet issue, no one held a gun to their head..

fade to grey 29th Jul 2012 11:51

Sadly Noone has a crystal ball, but I would take issue that a ' young man in his 20s " would want to spend 40 years at ezy. I'm not sure the lifestyle is sustainable and I would think they would want to see some if the world before they retire.
There are very few "full career " airlines these days. I would think only BA would fit that bill.

Burpbot 29th Jul 2012 14:56

AGAIN!!!! This is a monarch recruitment thread, I have no wish to hear about the immoral practices at easyjet et al or any wish to work for them!

Hence reading the page titled MONARCH!!!!

Is this page not moderated anymore???

Burpbot 29th Jul 2012 15:00

Does anyone have any relevant information?

I mean about the current state of play with recruitment at MONARCH?

Serenity 29th Jul 2012 20:19

I see the Jet2 thread says big expansion next year.
Will the Monarch expansion keep up??

greywind 29th Jul 2012 20:30

Apparently recruitment is still going on, working through all the applications with another round of interviews to be scheduled in September.

Deano777 29th Jul 2012 22:45

What about opening up the online application again? Or is that a no no because they have the required numbers?

JStone 30th Jul 2012 20:58

Any PFO's gone out yet?
Hey all

Has anyone who got there app in before it closed received a PFO yet?

1000ft Cruiser 30th Jul 2012 22:22

It's a bit odd that the people who applied in the brief (3 days was it?) online application apparently haven't heard anything yet.

Just a bit of my own unique mental diarrhea here but I'd have thought it takes, on average, about 5 minutes to read a CV/cover letter and decide if they warrant an interview.

Some will take longer, some will be an instant no, but supposing 5 minutes is an average that's 12 an hour. Call it 10 allowing for a coffee/fag/toilet break that's 70 in a 7 hour day and 350 in a week. The application closed nearly 6 weeks ago now, so that's enough time to read 2100 CVs.

I know that's only back of a fag packet, pub maths but surely they must have some idea of what they need and send out a few interview dates and PFOs.

Frustration is an understatement.

alpha.charlie 30th Jul 2012 22:49

I don't know this for sure but I don't think Monarch send out "PFO's"

greywind 31st Jul 2012 06:30

If they don't send out PFOs then how do unsuccessful candidates know they've been unsuccessful? They just sit and wait until they give up waiting?
I know other companies have done this, but surely it's much better to send out a PFO?

funnypilot 31st Jul 2012 11:48

PFO received

Superpilot 31st Jul 2012 13:18

What time funnypilot?

Anyone else?

funnypilot 31st Jul 2012 13:26

i received it today about one minute before my post .i knew people were wondering if we would received it or not .
hopefully, you won't receive it , wich could be a good sign ;)

go around flaps15 31st Jul 2012 13:29

Was it via email or a message on the online portal?

Whats your experience level?

gorter 31st Jul 2012 13:29

Can I ask your experience levels? Were you a paper application or online and finally how did you find out? Sorry to hear it and better luck next time.

funnypilot 31st Jul 2012 13:43

i received 2 mails on my private email adress : one to tell me that i was unsuccessful ect ect , the other one to tell me my online application had been updated (i didn't check yet but i think it's now written "unsuccessful" or something like that )

i have a frozen ATPL + mcc+ joc with everything valid , 300 hours and not type rating

(the last 2 details might explain everything ;) )

good luck to all of you sill waiting

1000ft Cruiser 31st Jul 2012 13:47

Cheers for that funny, sorry to hear you didn't get the interview.

Good luck to everyone else. If PFOs are going out it starts to look a bit more promising for those of us who haven't got one. Fingers crossed.

Superpilot 31st Jul 2012 13:58

Thanks funny, best of luck

Stick35 31st Jul 2012 18:05

Got the PFO letter as well. 2000 jet time (corporate).TT 2500.

fmgc 31st Jul 2012 19:11

Just a bit of my own unique mental diarrhea here but I'd have thought it takes, on average, about 5 minutes to read a CV/cover letter and decide if they warrant an interview.
1000 applications x 5 mins = 5000 mins = 83.3 hours = near as damn it 12 working days with no lunch to just look through the CVs.

And there is a lot more to it than just looking through CVs!

1000ft Cruiser 31st Jul 2012 21:19

I know, I'm not under any illusions that it's that simple. I just find it frustrating and a bit odd that nobody who applied 6 weeks ago has apparently heard anything until this afternoon. I'd have expected a steady stream of interviews and PFOs

Not to worry, at least things are moving now.

Aquarius 1st Aug 2012 00:14

A small number of my bmi baby colleagues have been offered FO positions with MON at EMA on the A320. To the best of my knowledge, none are currently type rated. I believe that it is for Mar 2013 start. The HR dept have told me it may take 2 weeks to get through all the current CV's/applications.....

There's hope for us all yet! :)

Superpilot 1st Aug 2012 03:11

Aquarius, any idea when exactly they interviewed? A start date that's 8-9 months away shows a very early commitment by Monarch. Some might call it strange :uhoh:

Any typed guys with say less than 500 hours on type heard anything yet?

Flying Wild 1st Aug 2012 08:11

Those pilots to which Aquarius refers were interviewed in the past few weeks. Some starting TR course as soon as Nov, others in Feb.

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