The fact it is apt in all walks of life doesn't make it practically useless, where is your logic there then? Take the borrowed wisdom or leave it.

Where did you get the idea that life at BA is uncertain?

Bengerman - It was a general comment about uncertainty. Not in relation to any particular currently known fact (although it can hardly be argued that everything surrounding BMI at the moment is known with complete certainty).

I simply meant that everything in life is uncertain, especially in aviation.

B&B - the logic is simple. We don't know what the future holds. Therefore, we don't know what the future holds at easyJet or at BA. So to use it as a reason not to join BA is entirely useless.

Solon's warning? Oh yeah I know the one, don't mix HP sauce with ketchup? Especially not on those bacon rolls you get at easyjet for £5.

Greek mythology aside, I decided BA was going to offer me more over a 30+ year career then easyjet ever would. For plenty of guys I know this wasn't the case - they were happy to be short-haul captains for the rest of their careers and be home everynight. My point is if you feel BA offers you the flexibility and potential lifestyle that would suit you and your aspirations then the change in the PP24 scale to 34 increments should make little difference to your desire to join. I would suggest that it would be a tad shortsighted to just chase the biggest paycheck when in reality it is the lifestyle that makes the job, and the big appeal of BA for many pilots is the opportunity to decide exactly which sort of lifestyle and flying pattern suits them. There will never exist one "stand alone" best airline job.

I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about lifestyle. BA pilots, considering a median opinion, may historically to now have a better lifestyle however there are no pilots with a bigger target on their back than BA, AF and Cathay pilots. Solon's warning - no one KNOWS until it's over. Then we can compare for our time. In easyJet anyone with half a brain knows where we stand.

Pay point 34, -300 on the seniority list overnight and it's all about lifestyle!

Seniority is king or so I keep being told!

In BA anyone with half a brain knows where they stand. Easyjet gives you no more certainty over your career than BA, but at least BA hasn't been infested with pay to fly cadets, who may yet go on to become pay to fly captains. Everything you say about uncertainty applies in equal measure to Easyjet.

You can not possibly say that the same uncertainties and probabilities apply to both operations - within the industry they are dependent on completely different markets, scales and continents. If you think you can then you do not understand probabilities. EasyJets difficulties for the future lie with oil, remaining competitive and unpredictable events (e.g the A320 being grounded). BA has all those problems plus a worldwide network, a clumsy EU style alliance, a left wing, unmeritocratic vein running through its middle (it's like a privately owned state airline), expensive planes on order and a pilot come wishy washy MBA at the helm......oh and the worlds most expensive crews. Take your half (+/- half) a brain and join the dots. If you're 55+ I wouldn't worry. If you're 40 down you may not get what you signed up for.

As for saying pay to fly cadets are at easy, why don't you state facts? There are people who paid for a type rating ( of which I am fortunate to say I was not one that paid in the form of an upfront cash lump sum ) who then were paid an allowance followed by an hourly rate. So beyond the paying for a type rating how are they paying to fly? If they are then you too have pay to flyers in BA because I know (of) 30+ pilots at BA who within the last 2 years did the same. On the same basis I know many pilots ( ex raf, ex 74/5/67, ex TP etc) who did SSTR which is effectively the same I.e. pay for type rating, have a reduced salary. Unfortunately your precious BA didn't want to give people an opportunity then. They couldn't generate the growth and made the lifestyle they offered their pilots such a gift that the labour turnover was so low.

Precisely my point Hand Solo.

B&B - I agree that there are shared common problems facing both airlines. But I strongly disagree that BA has all of easyJet's problems plus others. easyJet also has problems that BA do not face, such as having to deal with different contracts, unions and labour laws with all it's bases across Europe, and the lack of influence the board has over an unpredictable Stelios despite his great influence over the share price and public opinion of the company (to name a just a few examples).

Consequently, it is impossible to compare probabilities and uncertainties between the two companies at all. To do do would be folly. Which brings us back to the beginning - all one can say is the future is uncertain at both companies. If BA offers what you want right now more than easyJet does, then that is all you can base your decision to change companies on.

Ts and Cs are under attack everywhere. Not just the majors. Project Merlin makes it abundantly clear that easyJet pilots have a big target on their backs too. Arguably even more so than those at BA.

B&B you demand that we state facts then come out with gems such as:

[QUOTE] left wing, unmeritocratic vein running through its middle (it's like a privately owned state airline), expensive planes on order and a pilot come wishy washy MBA at the helm......oh and the worlds most expensive crews/QUOTE]

There is nothing meritocratic about most of the lifestyle functions within easyjet, you just join a list. That includes the all important command process - trust me I've been through it and it has more to do with who your pilot manager is, if he's a :mad: and if he is able to fit you into his schedule for yet another pointless meeting that month. In the mean time 40 SFOs have jumped the queue in the small friendly regional base down the road and crewing have made a total balls of your command assessment flights that are handed out in random order. Meritocratic? Give me a break!

And your comments about BA's crew being the most expensive in the world and on a par with AF frankly betray your total lack of knowledge and experience of anything other than easyjet. You talk a good game, I'll give you that, but most of your opinions are founded in guesswork and, I'm afraid to say, what distinctly sounds like sour grapes. If you are happy in easyjet on a Euro contract then good for you, why the obsession with trashing BA?

Thank god the BA selectors got it right with B and B it's like arguing with a signpost. Could anyone here imagine doing an ULH trip with him?

I joined easyJet on a self sponsored type rating then flexi crew scheme.. I am now a permanent employ on a fantastic European contract, enjoying 5/4/5/3 roster lifestyle and i'm very happy here.

Each to their own, I like coming home every night.

But I don't think the comment about pay 2 fly cadets becoming pay 2 fly captains is valid, in Ryanair maybe, but at least in EJ we have a "carrot on a stick" of a perm. at the end of the flexi period.

Failure is acceptable Black&Brown. It makes you no less of a person at the end of the day. Going on a crusade with a keyboard in the vain hope that you can convince the world that it wasn't failure and that you are not irritated by rejection is having us all in stitches. You lurk around pprune, stalking BA related topics, singing the Easyjet hallelujahs. You may have an orange exterior however you aren't fooling anyone into thinking that it isn't the red, white and blue that is chewing you up inside.

Get on with you life man, your behaviour's unhealthy! You're one step away from hiding behind the bins at Cranebank, hoping to pull a number on the recruitment team.

Dear B & B. You are about as accurate as the Daily Mail.

To begin, this isn't about how great easyJet is to work for and how well they treat us (which they don't - they treat us with contempt it seems) , it is about BA.

Ok, I'll start with you BMRR. I haven't begun the command process but I do hear the complaints - I really can't comment.

Callsign kilo - you aren't into BA yet and probably won't be from this round of recruitment. Stop with the amateur psychology, you haven't the first clue what you are talking about. Did you learn from the same 'idiots guide to psycology' that the cabin crew come BA selector come clinical psychologists that run the pilot selection did? As for your quite frankly libellous final statement I suggest you grow up - this isn't personal, it's broadly about BA.

Massive heed, you are about as illogical as the guardian.

It seems the (wannabe) BA pilots (obviously nothing like all Ba pilots, just the pprune bitches) here don't like anything that goes against their assumptions - which is all you can do about BAs future - assume. As for not liking what is said about now, that is denial.

B&B is a bit OTT but he does make some good points

Large "traditional" airlines are under lots of pressure and its hard to see it getting any easier

fuel affects everyone, but legacy high cost structures impact the old boys worst - look at Qantas - 3 maintenance bases in the second highest cost country in the Asia Pacific region and maintenance costs 20% above their regional rivals.

Too many big airlines have gone bust in the lat 30 years to have any confidence that BA will be around forever

All we can do is to stay current, stay flexible and plan for the worst

"Too many big airlines have gone bust in the lat 30 years to have any confidence that BA will be around forever "

Let's remember that when we talk of Big Airlines this now includes Easy Jet and Ryanair. ALL airlines are under a squeeze at the moment, the economic situation in Europe is hardly perfect and liable to worsen. No one who flies can think with certainty they will be working for the same company now and at retirement.

Get off your soapbox BlackandBrown, you're boring. I've never seen such a case of twisted denial - on your part! It's written all over every sniping comment that you make. And that parting shot about the credentials of the BA selectors, anybody reading that will make the clear assumption that you harbour a grudge.

If I don't make it out of the holdpool, which I will agree looks more and more likely as time goes by, then I'm not going to do the bitch and moan on here. I won't try and deceive myself by attempting to drag up any old arguement that might create the perception that I didn't really want it anyway. I won't get into all the 'my airline is better than your airline...' b.s. that you seem to champion. I'll be hugely disappointed, however it isn't the be all and end all that you seem to think all the potential BA newbees have been brainwashed into believing.

And as for 'frankly libellous' statements, it's an attempt at humour in light of all your garbage. You might have a few valid points, however everyone can see through your reasons for posting them. 'Pprune bitches' - pot, kettle and black!

You are a sycophant callsign kilo with a classic 'superstitious' style personality. You say I have valid points ( not that I care ) - I say you have said nothing valid on this subject whatsoever. Stop hoping that BAs amateur psycologist pilot selectors can decipher your name on here, it's weakening your style, stance and validity. You are treading on egg shells and for what? They are NOT going to take you from this round of recruitment with an 18 month hold pool limit.

I'm debating BA as a brand, a company, it's assets and it's ability to continue as it is. On that basis I'm debating the sense in leaving other opportunities for it. There are are no such things as guarantees.

I thought the BA selectors were either recruitment consultants or pilots not psychologists amateur or otherwise.
B and Bs point about downward pressures on Ts and Cs is correct. Why he has to bang the drum when we all know it is the point.
There are niches at RYR and EZY that may suit some but top paypoint LHS LH BA is a pretty nice place to be there are of course plenty of other nice places.

B and B has been criticised by many on here on various threads. It's probable that the selectors recognised the flaw that causes this.

No selection process is perfect but BAs is as fair and as objective as it can be IMVHO.

Even B and B must agree that as BA require candidates to display an ability to maintain a harmonious climate in the workplace, the evidence on PPRUNE alone would prove their decision to reject him was correct.