Ryanair Pilots 15%+ Pay Cut since 2009
 

Ryanair Pilots 15%+ Pay Cut since 09

RYANAIR THE LOW PAY AIRLINE.........

Compound CPI inflation over period 17%+ minimum.

Basic Pay changes:

2009=0%

2010=0%

2011=3% increased basic, but 3.3% REDUCTION in sector pay, hence nett increase of 0.5% overall.

2012= 2% on basic, 0% on sector pay. This = about 1.5% on overall pay.

Nett result over 4 years....

CPI compound inflation 17% -2% pay rise = Total Pay DECREASE of 15% in real terms.

The race to the bottom continues.....

Where is the future.....please debate

Who wants to stay/leave given the above....please debate

Thinking of joining given these constant pay reductions inflation adjusted?

Management Bullies, TRE's with as little as 500 Hrs command, F/O's Instructing you in sim.

Join and end up someplace in the back end of Europe possibly on 5/3 roster. Term and Conditions eroded at every opportunity. Experience and hence safety levels getting severely reduced, becoming a bit of a joke!

Despite it all you still can't get them to join a Union. I really don't know how much worse it has to get.

Can you elaborate on this:

How does this work?

Now I had it in my mind that British Airways had TRI/TREs in the simulator who were F/Os?

I believe in Ryanair that they're SFI's as opposed to TRI's but I'm not 100% sure

Ryanair have SFI's. BA and Aer Lingus have FOs who are sim instructors also. 500hr command time TREs will have either been SFIs or TRIs previously. If there is anything positive to take out of Ryanair, it is the training. This has been said before and the rest has been talked to death. Move on.

Well if they cant stay United This is selfinflicted.

Then no sympathy from here..
I do however whish Them Luck in their Union project. Time to try and grow some balls and staying United...

THATS THE ONLY WAY TO BETTER CONDITIONS!!

Good luck gentlemen...

(Applying full rudder in the hope of correcting this profound thread drift...).

Pilots are too often introspective, failing to see the wider picture. Pilot salaries and terms and conditions should probably only be evaluated in the context of the company's, industry's, and wider economy's, performance.

There are many tools on the web which will allow those who wish to, to examine Ryanair's performance as a company.

On a positive note, in my experience, both the financial and operational success (in terms of not having accidents - several European carriers are statistically well overdue a 'big one' in the simplest terms) depend on a high quality training department.

Training FOs can bring signifcant benefits, as can FOs in management (if they're the right ones!).

However, nothing will ever either persuade me to get onto a Ryanair aircraft or work for them.

Ryanair has done more to drive standards down to the shocking levels at which they reside in so many areas than any other carrier. A sad consequence of the free market's interaction with the modern consumer who knows the price of everything and value of nothing is that where they lead, others must follow.

Training used to good....not anymore.
They are pushing literally anyone with 3000hrs of LNAV/VNAV to upgrade to the left hand seat regardless of their maturity, readiness and proven experience; on top of that most of the trainers are now made in house so the focus is merely on SOPs but with a total lack of actual flying skills and professional maturity.
What they teach is what they read, there is almost no passage of experience.
You sum that to the ever eroding T&C'S and the tax scandals that are unfolding lately and the results are pretty depressing......

Guys it is a free market economy that we live in.

If people think it is so dire at RA then they can leave or not join in the first place.

I have the required fATPL, with first time passes etc plus I have the cash in the bank to pay for the type rating and live without pay for a while.

I refuse to apply to RA as I do not like the company.

It seems simple to me.

joe,
This is your first post here and you start off like that? Seems a little strange to me.
frontlefthamster,
Don't blame ryanair blame the pilots that sell their soul for peanuts.

And danny, what you say seems like an accident waiting to happen. I hope it doesn't.

100% spot on.

Friends of mine who joined Ryanair in the early days seem to enjoy working there, but they are, as I understand it, on old contracts which pay well.

I'm the first to have a go at the pay to fly brigade. They are truly the lowest of the low and command my utter disrespect.

Above them, granted, there is a creeping malaise of erosion of terms and conditions, let alone pay.

Here, though, my significant gripe is with the management, who have raped cost out of the business until there is not even the faintest whiff of quality past.

Given what I've heard recently about certain share transactions, the future may be quite interesting... Has the backside fallen out of the business model? Is the whole thing, effectively, a shadow of some giant Ponzi scheme of aircraft dealing? We shall wait and see.

Congratulations Olicana!
 

Congratulations Olicana on your first time passes and gaining your frozen ATPL.

One assumes with your comments you are able to pick and choose which airline you will join. After all, those first time passes and a frozen ATPL will surely guarantee you a job right?

Money in the bank, a fATPL, and first time passes now make you able to go one step further and dictate to those professionals that work for Ryanair. It's simple, as you put it. You couldn't possibly lower your standards to work for Ryanair. After all, us simple lower class folk shouldn't moan and should simply either not join in first place, or leave, we're all a bunch of moaners are we? You can't always run away to solve problems.

Whilst part of your post I agree with, I might suggest you have a lot to learn for the future. A good many people have invested heavily in their careers at Ryanair, have families, and simply can't solve things by just leaving. Also to insinuate it's just the free market that causes the problem demonstrates a profound lack of knowledge of the problems that exist.

You should talk to a few folk who have been around. They will tell you the same, a licence and first time passes do not guarantee you a job my friend. There are many many highly professional flight crew out there without jobs, that have type ratings and buckets full of experience that you may be lucky to gain over the next 15 years. So before you dictate, look in the mirror.

I hope paying over that cash in the bank for a rating works out. After all what airline wouldn't take you? As you state, you can work without pay for a while.

Don't you think you are part of the problem, rather than the solution? CRM my friend, rule 1, get along with everyone you meet, don't act too smart, it's a small world out there. Look after all your colleagues whatever company they work for.

The terms and conditions and changes in Ryanair have a nasty habit of influencing the rest of the industry, and will affect you regardless of the company you work for.

The pontification from the ignoratii here is staggering. Either some of you don't work in this industry, or you should be ashamed of yourself. You accuse Ryanair pilots of not sticking together when all you can do is criticise them for trying to make a living and support their families in very trying circumstances, whilst accusing them of being worse than the company themselves. Just listen to yourselves. There is a huge amount going on in Ryanair at the moment to try and improve things. It is being very carefully and very deliberately planned. If your knowledge of that is limited to what you read here, then please try and avoid commenting on it unless you wish to support Ryanair pilots.
Please check out REPA guys and girls. There is important stuff going on there in a constructive atmosphere. PPRUNE is being spoiled by people hiding behind the anonymity of the internet - I'm pretty sure that most of you wouldn't make some of the dimwitted comments above to a Ryanair pilot's face would you? Frankly, I'd quite like to see that if you really would.
Perhaps try thinking about that before starting to type.

Reap and sow.the idea of 'fr' and a union recognition makes me laugh,heartily. Our traniing dept is great.blah blah.never yet worked for airline who taught arline training dept was crap.

joe,
You smell so much of management... Olicana has done the right thing. If many people have done the same the profession wouldn't have gone down the tubes. I bet he can look himself in the mirror, unlike many who have sold their souls for peanuts with the excuse that they have to support their families. If they hadn't sold their souls that cheap they could be supporting their families a lot better.

If you have the flight times and you fit the entry requirements, how about apply to Emirates/Qatar/Etihad/Flydubai? Some of those choices are better than others (look at Middle East board). Get some time in the sun. Don't put up with that embarrassing CEO putz at Ryanair any longer....:yuk:

Beachbum - Actually I make a very nice living thank you very much. I earn more money than I ever thought I would.
Money at Ryanair is not the point. Your point illustrates quite nicely just how much you know about the situation. Ie, nothing.

Sorry Joe but I have to disagree with you.

I did not mean to give the impression I would automatically pass selection for RA should I choose to apply. I am not one of those people that assumes if you turn up at RA HQ with 30k then a job offer will be an automatic thing.

I have flown with pilots from RA (in the GA environment) and from that I gleaned they are professional well trained people.

However it does come down to,simple economics. Perhaps I should have qualified my comments with the additional information that I read economics for three years at uni so have a reasonable grasp of the fundamentals.

If you look at the basic supply and demand model there reaches a points where the costs get too much and the demand dries up (giffen goods etc excluded).

So I stand by my assertion that if people don't like it then they do not have to apply or they can leave.

Well its a fact of life isnt it ??? RYR pilots dont Stick together otherwise
You wouldnt have the terms & conditions that Quite a few guys are online here complaining about today, Fact! One thing is having a Union, another thing is to have a STRONG Union. Now once again I Hope you succeed IN
Making a Union, but i takes even more to have a STRONG Union afterwards.
You say some lame frases about surporting families and so on which just comes across to me as a way of justifying you Own inability to do something about it... BS it is! There are loads of other options as pointed out.
Would I say my opinion to a RYR pilots face... Yes i Would because its the truth, and I allready have to a few freinds of mine flying there and complaining about it as Well...
The truth hurts, I know but history has shows your results so far!

Look out and Good luck !

Olicana- congrats on getting an Economics degree as well. I will get you a medal.

Things are in black and white at FR, not great but I am still building up time and paying my debts off for all my training, at present there are few jobs around so just hanging tight at the moment, people on here do moan a lot even those without jobs!!

Ryanair
 

I fly for RYR.:hmm: And I had no surprises since I joined. I had 15 years previous experience in an other airline. I think that if you are based where you prefer then there is not many companies in Europe that beat RYR. There are pros and cons in any company. To everyone I wish you good jobs and a lot of flying:} /T

Well Teddy I do hope your supporting unity within RYR. Did you expect your overall package to be degraded so much over the years?

Can anyone tell me about the announced increase in pay now in April?
It was a compulsory reading about it a few days ago.

If you think pay rises are happening with generosity elsewhere, rest assured they aren't. I currently work in a safety critical area for an oil major. My recent pay rises:

2008: 0.0%
2009: 0.6%
2010: 1.1%
2011: 0.8%

Hardly anything to write home about either. My management know damn well there aren't any jobs about so they have a free hand to bend us over and shaft us. Not exactly surprising that bean counters in other industries are doing the same.

Dunno, over here every worker in the biggest industry received an average bonus of around 6500€ last year and this year somewhat over 8k€, plus the usual yearly increases of around 3,5%.

Me myself will receive an increase of 5% this year and another 4% mininum (could be more) next year, despite flying for a financially challenged airline. Thanks to a workforce which backs its union.

Aiming high
 

If you don't work in aviation, as you say, then you really don't have a clue how badly Ryanair treat people. So, I'd stay out of the debate and let the MANY people in Ryanair who have a valid complaint, complain.

It's a terrible outfit.

As for pay rises, in January 2012 I receive a 6.1% pay rise. I also received a very, very generous bonus in February 2012.

My employer recognises that hard work, safety and performance all merit reward.

Ryanair, conversely, do not. Unless you're a senior executive.

AimingHigh,

So, you're yet another fATPL wonder boy, who hasn't flown for an airline and thinks they've got the whole game sewn up.

Wake up sonny Jim, Ryanair is a disaster and will continue to be so whilst there are enough clones like you stumbling about in a zombie, semi aroused erect state, all the while having a wet dream about flying a jet.

I've been in this industry a while, and I have full confidence in my correctness in saying that you sir, are talking bollocks.

Always love it when people think they know what they're talking about. Aiminghigh, we in RYR are trying to make this a better place for people like you to come in and reap the rewards and treat it as a career instead of an hour building exercise.

Interesting to see the most popular Ryanair post on pprune is factually about pay.!

RYNAIR
HAS
DESTROYED
THE
PROFESSION.


I have no sympathy at all for those bloody 2 stripes CPL holder who once signed for a slaveryscheme with Ryanair and who are crying all their tears today.

Quote Joe Bloggs: ''A good many people have invested heavily in their careers at Ryanair''

There's the problem. RYR cannot be considered a career airline anymore. It's somewhere people pass through on their way up, but unless you are the lucky few who are in the left seat at a base of your choice - a long term future with them isn't attractive. For those starry eyed newguys with the brand new fATPLs who think that the glossy paint on the jets is going to make the job better, the point in your life where they have to make long term decisions is never far away and the glamour of the new job evaporates rapidly.

There is no doubt that a lot of the rot in this industry started with LoCos and in particular, with RYR. How this affect everyone is clear when you see what is happening in my company. We have some of the best Ts and Cs in the world - but we live in one of the most expensive cities in the world. We are recruiting, the basic pay is the same as was on offer before, but the additional benefits which are essential to maintain the lifestyle most are accustomed to are vastly reduced. The package sounds attractive though, in comparison to what is now on offer in Europe and we have had plenty of applicants - many from RYR! We have in this industry a whole generation of pilots who think it's normal to pay over a hundred thousand pounds to get into the seat of a jet while paying for food/uniforms/passes/accomodation etc and any extra scraps are jumped on. We are now seeking pilots with lower expectations.

It will be interesting to see how long these new recruits will last here.

There are now more Ryanair pilots in IALPA than Aer Lingus pilots. There is a steady stream joining lately. The only way to protect the future of the profession is to stand together. Laziness and selfishness won't cut it.

STAND UP AND BE COUNTED, OR BEND OVER AND BE MOUNTED!

no slot.

@Dan Winterland, well said :ok:

@no slot, let me explain you something very basic. AER LINGUS recognises the union. Ryanair DOES NOT recognise any union. Most of the Ryanair slaves have no proper working contract established by Ryanair itself, they have an hilarous crappy contract from Gibraltar, with no benefit and this gives Ryanair all right to fire anyone anytime with no explanation whatsoever.

So continue dreaming with your IALPA, you will get NOTHING, just more vaseline and this it what you and your colleagues deserve.

By the way, look at Aer Lingus itself. It is a bad flag carrier transformed into low cost ****.

@wind check

Thanks for your insights.

Yes we will continue dreaming about IALPA, because they are working hard behind the scenes for us, as evidence by the many emails and campaigns they have launched to raise awareness and gather information from the FR pilot body.

As for the Vaseline chirp...I suggest you have more respect for your collegues, this remark is disgraceful, coming from a so called professional.

We are working very hard to improve our lot, and consequently the lot of the industry.

Goose.
FR Skipper.

Wind Check, a tad aggressive ( or scorned? ).

I never said I fly for Ryanair. The pilots in Ryanair deserve more. With a little organisation their lot will improve. Ryanair will be forced to recognise a union if enough Pilots join. Globally there is a pilot shortage. The time is now. If Pilots look out for each other, regardless of how comfortable your current flying job is, the industry will be forced to offer good salaries and terms and conditions.

I'm tired of hearing the talk of Lions who sacrafice like Lambs.

no slot.

This one is not about Ryanair in anyway in fact, it is all about the Ryanair pilots, what they do.

Thanks