Why? Are you saying the bmi pilots have no balls?

Ha ha ha ha ha oohh stoppittt! OOOHHH hee hee :D :\

Reality hasn't arrived in your world yet, has it?

So how did it feel, being hung?

I suspect that it is the Cabin Crew who have changed their behaviour, not the Flight Crew.

No matter how much they wish it, this has no similarities with their disagreement. But then again, we will always have Cabin Crew who compare themselves to pilots. No one knows why.

I think we're back to ignoring the Count.

Anybody got anything to add before I vote?

Ignoring the Count`s ramblings, there is still the unpalatable truth which is : if IAG see the business case for setting up a "BA lite" operation sometime in the future then they will regardless of any assurance given to the contrary

Is it worth accepting worse terms and conditions to help IAG not BA finance the bmi deal ?

How will IAG be able to set up "BA Express" with no slots at LHR?

Why do you think they are buying bmi, or have you fallen for the " we will use all the bmi slots for long haul" story ? and do you think all the current BA short haul slots are not up for re allocation if IAG think it appropriate ?

I meant if BMI are integrated into BA. I understand that they don't have to use all the slots for LH but if all slots are transfered to BA, as would surely happen with the integration, then those slots are all now BA's. Therefore cannot be used to set up new airline (that's how I understand SCOPE). I'm just trying to understand it as this question doesn't seem to have been answered by those saying that IAG can still set up a new carrier in the future.

The slots may only be "leased" to BA and still "owned" by IAG until they (IAG) decide the time is right to set up the BA lite operation. There have been no assurances that if bmi is intergrated the bmi slots would become BA`s permanently.

My apologies. I made a typographical error in my last post.

Please read any reference to BMI as "BA Express".

In case no one has noticed here, if Lufthansa do not find a buyer for BMI Baby by 31/3/12, IAG inherit that outfit as well.

Where will these pilots be slotted in?

British Airways/IAG with bmi looks to re-establish world leadership – and long term survival | CAPA

Hardly news. It is part of the deal that if Baby is not sold, the price for the deal goes down.

It doesn't take the brains of a rocket scientist to imagine what will happen if IAG is forced to take on Baby as well.

No. All slots will be taken by BA and become part of scope. The BACC had spotted that one.

Until you get that in writing I would be sceptical of any "assurances" in that area.

Take a look at the link the Count posted, the inference is quite clear, BA will eventually have a lower cost short haul operation, sooner rather than later if the outcome of the vote is a yes in my humble opinion !

It is in writing in the agreement between BA and BALPA. The BA members have read and digested that which probably explains why nobody in BA is getting overexcited.

If I was the count I'd me more concerned about the 20m IFCE have agreed to save without consulting the union.

The slots will be transferred to BA ownership as well as the airframes thereby placing them under the legally ratified Scope clause as part of the MOA. This has been agreed by IAG as part of the deal to integrate. After that point it would be very tricky for IAG, given the lack of slot availability and the competition authority's approval, for IAG to expand its slot portfolio at LHR.

Cost reductions for SH have been on the cards for years. A short term snapshot of 5% productivity and some leave days (to be replaced by wrap around working days off giving a reduction of 2 credit hours per day or 4 credit hours per year) are irrelevant when looking at the long term ability to grow LH.

BMI, under the NO vote, would cease to exsist. Their AOC would be annulled and a new AOC instigated. What happens to the contracts at that point? There is no 'integration', no 'takeover' and certainly no TUPE. Think of the position of all of the BMI crews be it flight, cabin or ground staff at that point. When you are presented with a 'take it or leave it' scenario.

As for the Count, most in the cabin, bar of course the rampant militant BASSA members who wanted the company to fold anyway, are breathing a collective sigh of relief that the BASSA lunacy is behind us. Is the CC union a sheep or a lamb? The fact that IFCE, along with ALL other departments, are having to submit their annual cost savings and have entered their proposals to the board without even bothering to consult with the almighty BASSA might go someway to prove that the Union has become more akin to a turkey than even a lamb.

£20 M from IFCE? When/where was that announced? Is that their contribution to integration of BMI?

BASSA not consulted either? That will initiate a few hissy fits :D

As an external observer with an interest in the outcome of the vote, I'm glad to see that those who actually have a say appear to be coherent and understanding. It's also nice to see that the laughable, militant views imparted by some (who generally show a complete lack of understanding) are indeed being laughed at.

4015

It is indeed. Whilst many like to think that only the Flight Crew have an input on this they are incorrect. Whilst IAG has allowed BALPA to be a major deciding partner, all other departments have also been consulted/told that they will have to achieve cost parity/savings in order to play a part in the merger. Some departments have had savings levied in line with reducing the BMI debt and other departments, with contractual obligations, have been asked to tender new contracts.

This is a business wide event. Not just for us Flight Crew to decide.

I think that the majority who have a say in this have a very coherent view of what's at stake. As for the rest, interesting as some of the comments are, they do show a lack of understanding IMHO, but are worth listening to.

Aside, of course, from those who have yet to move on and are deliberately playing the agent provocateur. They are unlikely to get around the credibility issue though.

It is indeed. BA want savings of over 100m company wide. All departments have agreed to the savings (the management that is). Any department not making the savings will see the work outsourced. Flight ops is no different except that we're the only ones getting a vote on it. Other depts will have to take or leave any changes.

To be strictly accurate they can only "take it"............

Or leave..... Bye Count...:ok: