Wizz Air
 

Hi all

Looking for some details regarding Wizz T&Cs for Captains based in Bucharest.

a) Roster: How many days OFF are usually allocated monthly? Does rostering pattern follows a typical 6 on 4 off or something different?

b) Sectors flown monthly: Mostly short/medium (according to Wizz definition) two-sector days or also multi-sector days as well? Any long sectors from BUB?(I suspect the Spanish destinations qualify). An outline of a typical monthly roster would help :)

c) Quality of life and cost of living in Bucharest. As I understand, housing allowance is not provided any more.

Any other info which would help reaching a decision will be appreciated :ok:

Thanks

Bbu capt roster
 

Hi Bike:

I'm SFO here in BBU

Answers to your questions

a) Roster: How many days OFF are usually allocated monthly? Does rostering pattern follows a typical 6 on 4 off or something different?

Roster Stable 6-4 or 6-1-6-7 (13-7)

b) Sectors flown monthly: Mostly short/medium (according to Wizz definition) two-sector days or also multi-sector days as well? Any long sectors from BUB?(I suspect the Spanish destinations qualify). An outline of a typical monthly roster would help

Average 30 sectors monthly. Short few of them, medium 40%, long all the Spanish and LTN

c) Quality of life and cost of living in Bucharest. As I understand, housing allowance is not provided any more.

Bad.... my friend.... The housing price is the same and now we won't have HA. Apartment in a western mentality not less than 6oo€ and less if you want to share. The cost of living is a 20% less than Western Europe

Until the cut of the HA... the atmosphere was nice..... now.... :=:=:=:=:=

Best Regards

Stay far far far far away from this crap :yuk::yuk::yuk:

I've been told it's good only for upgrades if you need it.
Do you agree ? How long for the upgrade if still possible ?
Right now recruiting only Cpt maybe in october could change ?
Thanks for the infos.:):)

Thanks for the replies.

I guess that it needs a little bit of thinking, as far as the monthly expenses are concerned.

linza, a last question: Do you guys need a car, both for going to work but also for your personal / social living (I hope there is some :suspect:)

To make it simple, many of BBU based pilots are busy updating their CV's, rather than describe the T&C's erosion happening these days...

The atmosphere swung in a matter of a week, most are disgusted by the loss of living allowance, which represents about 30 to 35% of an FO salary.

If you plan to spend your time off in Romania, you might get by, but if you commute, it'll start to cost a lot, having to rent 2 places, one for work, and one for you country of origin.

As for thinking of bringing the family to live here with you, forget it, it might cost you your marriage. BBU is survivable only if your family is from Romania.

But that really counts for the whole of Wizz: in the long term it works for the local pilots and doesn't work for the expats. The management knows it and that's their strategy as well. Why hire expensive work force if you can pay less money for local people and give them the lifestyle they want - they can work from home instead of commuting. Everybody's happy.

Understand that there is a huge pile at both BA and Ezy as well as GermanWings of Wizz drivers... Agree with the assesment that only locals will stay and expats will leave.

Biting the hand that feeds you.
 

I think this will make easily identifiable by former colleagues.

I spent 2 years at Wizz until recently. I had a lot of worldwide experience of large Airbus aircraft as an FO before I joined.

Wizz Air gave me a DEC.

They left me alone and allowed me to develop as a Captain, without fear of dismissal if I made a minor error. I could uplift extra fuel and never have to explain why. I could pick up a phone and get advice if needed at any time.

I was promoted to a Base Captain role after 15 months in the company. A very difficult job, in a challenging base, which I did my best to run fairly - and professionally.

I was given the chance to perhaps enter the training department - but declined as I knew I would be leaving soon after.

Wizz Air paid me, on time and every month. They gave me a port in a storm in 2009 when Virgin Atlantic were binning me for being near the bottom of their seniority list. They gave me my Command - and I'll always be glad of that.

So, is it sh1t? Well, the money could be better - especially for FO's.

But, for BBU pilots to think they should be treated differently is not correct. I had to pay €1000 per month in Katowice for an apartment when I was based there. Do you think Warsaw or Prague is a cheaper city to live in than Bucharest? Do you think Katowice is prettier than Bucharest? Get over it. The housing allowance was divisive - no other bases got it, so why should you? I tried my hardest for my pilots in my base, via a letter to senior management, and was royally slapped down for it. I never really did expect to get them a housing allowance, because BBU pilots received €1200 a month and only spent €500 of it on rent - whilst letting it be known that was the case. Smart? Hardly.

To put €1200 a month in perspective: the Base Captains only receive €1000 a month for all the hassle they endure....:eek:

So, as an ex-pat, I took as much as I could from Wizz Air and left when I got a better offer.

2 1/2 years ago, I was an FO with no prospects in Virgin Atlantic. Redundancy loomed.

After working hard, making sacrifices and being lonely whilst away from my family, I got a far, far better job back in the UK. I even had a choice - because I am now a Captain.

The moral of the story? Wizz Air will give you chances if you want to step up to the plate to take them. But don't stay too long if you're an expat, and if you really think it's so sh1t: either don't apply, or just leave for better things.

Narrow Runway


You forget one minor point: evryone here is naming the BBU allowance a "housing allowance". That is only part of the story.

To be completely fair in your assessment of BBU "privileges", we could compare how many sectors the Wizz pilots fly per month in Gdansk or Katowice. Every month is about 50 sectors or more. BBu has long night flights and longer sectors in general, many pilots don't exceed 30 sectors per month.
This allowance was taking this into account too.

Flex

Housing Allowance or Sector Pay Compensation
 

Hi Flex,

It is called a housing allowance, but is used to compensate for less sectors?

But in that case, what about the bases in CLJ, SOF, KBP & TSR that all do similar numbers of sectors, i.e. 30 or so a month?

In CLJ, for example, a case was made for the "housing allowance or sector compensation" to be paid. It was declined.

If it were a true sector pay compensation, then all bases with similar sector lengths should be entitled to it and not just BBU. At least that's my view.

Either way, the housing allowance dated back to a time when Wizz could not get pilots to go to BBU (about 2007 or 2008, I believe). Since then, the company is inundated with unemployed pilots and believes it can do away with such a scheme. Rightly, or wrongly, thats their view.

I'm not saying I agree with removing it - but I can see why the company have done so.

In the bigger picture of things, it's unjustified.

If BBU is unliveable without the allowance, why not try another base? GDN would perhaps provide a nice mix of sectors and nicer architecture. And there are significantly fewer wild dogs running about.

Narrow Runway
 

With all due respect , you have made it plain in your previous post, you no longer work for Wizz Air. For someone who neither works or worked in BBU you have alot of opinions about the circumstances of those that DO still work there. Please consider the circumstances of those struggling in BBU before you post your "justifications".

Wizz and Expats
 

Hi everyb,
I support Narrow Rw's post 100%.
I came back to work in my country for Wizz after 15 years of expat wide-body flying.
I cannot be happier. Of course I took 60% pay cut from my previous A340 command job, but we know we can't have everything, eh...
Expats should treat Wizz as a temporary shelter (if you are a captain) or upgrade opportunity (for F/O), and should understand that management are very flexible and basically it's better for them to have local pilots.
IMHO the situation will change dramatically within 2-3 years, when CEE pilots have full access to the job market in Europe. At that time I believe Wizz T&C will become closer to Easy, Air Berlin etc.
:ok:

Mondeoman
 

I thought I was quite straight in all fairness.

If you can tell me, without emotion, why you deserve the housing allowance when your colleagues in CLJ, TSR, KBP and SOF do not, I will happily listen.

Until then, I don't think I've said anything incorrect and I fully stand by my previous posts.

If you are struggling in BBU, then request a base move. Then, you will know if indeed you were so hard done by.

Average +-26 sectors/month :uhoh:

This is not "fair", as It was said on the official notification...:=

If they wanna make it "fair", let´s stablish a payroll system based on flight hour :rolleyes:

Narrow Runway

Thanks for your insight. Why no allowance in CLJ or TGM? could that be because the housing is costing a third of what you find in BBU? Could that be that when you go to the restaurant in Cluj you will pay 50 lei for dinner for 3 persons?

As for Wizzair being inondated with unemployed pilots, it may be true, but the ones with proper experience, I doubt. I can see numerous roster days where I don't have an FO until the night before, I am called on my days off on a regular basis (once a month) from Budapest because they're short of piloot/captains. Maybe the "inundating pilots" don't have the right experience, or maybe after applying when they find out they will be sent to CLJ or TGM, they think twice.

On the BBU specifics, although everyone thinks they are special, well, BBU is a bit special, as it is filled with expats, commuting pilots who otherwise would not be able to work in Wizzair on any other base (in Romania in the example), as TGM for example leaves pilots with little or no commuting possibilities.

And when these expats will have finally enough (enough hours to get out or enough of the degrading conditions, whichever comes first), I hope I'll be around to see the available Romanian pilots (with due respect) inundating BBU offices to beg for a job. :{

There are little or no pilots available from Romania to fill the gaps. And the few available are very aware, by now, that the pay has been cut by more than 30% as an F/O.

Pilots will vote with their feet, it's as good an any union on the long term.

Flex

Oh I forgot one little detail:

28 short sectors for a captain represents around 1680 euros
56 short sectors for a captain represents around 3360 euros

so the difference is around 1680 euros. Only with the sector (e.g BBU Vs Gdansk), the allowance was not event covering the difference.

stay away from that backward eastern immature bunch of crooks. That's my only advise to all expats out there.

Flex
 

Hi Flex,

I don't think you are being entirely accurate in your analysis:

1) you still have the €1200 per month until September, and then it is being reduced by €100 each month for a year until it no longer features. Therefore, you have not yet "suffered" as another poster says;

2) there are commuters in both TGM and CLJ. I was one for starters, there are others. In fact, CLJ is full of commuters - Hungarian commuters perhaps, but commuters nonetheless. Therefore, commuters are nothing special in BBU. Admittedly, there are lots of you, but it's your choice, not the company's to make you stay there. As I've said before, move base if you think it'll be unmanageable after the housing allowance disappears;

3) an apartment in CLJ is approximately €400 per month, plus bills for 80sq metres. Many of you live, or lived, in serviced apartments near BBU which were about €600 per month. Therefore, hardly expensive. In fact a lot less than I paid in KTW;

4) I agree totally with moving to flying hourly pay. I put this to both the HFO and Fleet Captain. The idea was not accepted as being workable. I disagree with their analysis, but could not get them to change their views, and;

5) Pilots in BBU do not fly only 26 SHORT sectors a month. It's all long or medium. Still less than other bases, but not so dramatic as you point out. For Capptains, the pay gap is less, but I admit for FO's it's awful;


My issue was not one of "BBU should not have such extra pay", rather one of "all bases with low sectors should be equally compensated".

Do you guys really think I am some kind of Wizz Air management sympathiser? I had some huge arguments with the HFO over the way things were being done in Wizz Air. I worked myself to the edge of exhaustion trying my best to improve what I could. Ultimately, I realised things would never improve. I left.

Wizz Air is not making money. The investors want returns. I can't see things improving in the current climate - and the only thing people can, or will, do is leave for better things.

Lakunas,

The last I was told is that the company was not making much money, nor was it losing much money. That is why expansion has stopped, in an effort to mature the existing markets/routes in order to create returns for the investors.

If a Captain earns €35 a sector in VNO, then that is a new low. That is more or less what FO's get for a long sector in other bases.:sad:

NR
I've heard that next year Wizz wants to go to stock market to attract some more investors and money. I guess will see next year. Yes that's low for sectors and flying nearly 25-30 sect you can count how much money is that.

RGDS

N77
 

I'm not trying to hide.

Do you disagree with what I've said?

Birdon
 

Can you justify your rude statement please?

So gentlemen, back to the topic of BBU, I've made the following two assumptions:

1. That each pilot does about 30 sectors monthly, most of which are falling in the "Medium" length band (sector rate plus 20%), and the remaining spread between short and long ones (extra 40% on the later).

2. No multi-sector days out of BBU which might have done some positive difference on the income.

Did I sum it up correctly?

N77 & Bike
 

N77,

I have left Wizz Air. I promise!!!

Bike,

Your assumptions sound broadly correct, and should therefore avoid you any unnecessary heartache. Good luck, I hope you have fun - enjoy the new machines.

But he's reapplying for DFO ;)

GA Button
 

:= You naughty boy. That's not true.....

....Wizz actually asked me to be DFO.....

.....That's not true either!!!:p

I am happily out of the airline, despite your mischief making:ok::ok::ok:

Thanks NR, I appreciate yours and everybody else's feedback.

Well...There are many Hungarian pilots here in Budapest that have applied to Wizz before with all the necessary qualifications and would be happy to fly the H-registered aircraft from any base.
No matter if it is CLJ or TGM. The queue is quite long, but since the recruitment personnel are from all other countries, this is not an issue that is being dealt with for the last 1-2 years. There definitely would be enough locals to fill the positions. Much more than enough.
Some of them (close friends of mine) with A320TR's are not being called for an assessment...

I am at a loss for words...

So there is an unlimited supply of Hungarian pilots available for immediate employment, some of them rated on the 320, and they sit around not being called? For sure the motives of investors and upper management will always stay a mistery for the average pilot that I am...

Is that you say that Wizzair deliberately makes its own recruitment more difficult in order to satisfy the "preference" of some foreigner (read non Hungarian) being part of the recruitment team?

If that is the case, then I see no reasons some here put discredit on the BBU base pilots for seeing the future more bleak with the allowance gone.... when all this could be sorted by replacing these moany expat pilots with the available Hungarian pilots...but wait, Wizz has not done so...can't see why. :hmm:

There are lies, dirty lies and statistics. I cannot imagine there are credible Hungarian pilots with A320 type-ratings waiting for jobs at Wizz who cannot get an interview. By the way, to be a credible A320 pilot you must have some time on the aircraft - having paid for your own rating and having 40 minutes base training would not really cut it with most employers. If, however, there are locals with 1500 hours plus on type and no 'unfortunate' history, then I would be surprised to find any of them struggling to get into Wizz. I stand to be corrected - maybe someone more in the known would like to be more definitive on the subject.

That's correct. I'm not saying there are thousands over here with A320 type ratings but I can name a few of them personally who have applied to wizzair some time ago and still without a job. Many are waiting to join wizzair with fATPL's. I know a number of Hungarian guys personally, who are type rated on the A320, who have applied to Wizzair more than a year ago and not a sign of an interview. Recently however, a number of foreign pilots were hired to the Budapest base. I would be curious which other airline is doing the same.

This is what I would like to know as well. A few years back Wizz did give preferance to locals, but at the moment nationality doesn't mean anything. Recruitment is done by foreigners.
(chief pilot, training manager etc).

These are not lies. Living here in Budapest and being in good contact with many Wizzair employees I can confirm this.
Okay, it might be true that most applicants do not have 1500 hours on the bus, but would be happy to pay for their TR any time. Wizzair also accepts non type rated applications, they always did. So you are still credible without a TR .
It is another question of course if they recieve millions of applications from experienced A320 pilots. I don't know about that.

At the end of the day I'm sure you agree that most airlines do give preference to their local pilots. This is totally fine, but this is not what's happening here at Wizzair at the moment.
It seems like they only look at experience.

locals versus expats
 

I truly believe that any employer, that is permitted to do so, will hire some expats and some locals, this way they stand less chance of getting into trouble.
Expat pilots are notorious for bending over, as well as leaving for greener pastures w/o proper notification...
:}

I've always wondered about this focus on nationality that you see quite often in developing (perhaps "developing" in Hungary's case) nations - a pilot is ultimately an input into the system for it to function. Does anyone give a toss about the geographic origin of the oil that was drilled to provide jet fuel for your next flight stuffed with emigrating locals? I doubt it. What pilot nationality has to do with the price of fish is beyond me.

It is not really the nationality that matters, but your domicile. Anyone I know would gladly accept a pay cut and an unstable roster if able to work from home and not having to commute. (Except of the rare cases when somebody doesn't like to be at home because of a failing marriage or the like)

Also, secondary benefits, like staff travel or travel with other airlines are much less important to somebody who does not have to commute. Most of the local pilots don't mind working on a day off as they are away from home only for half a day and it gets them extra income.

Even absence of a decent crew meal is easier manageable if your wife is cooking you a lunch for work every day and you are not staying in a hotel.

Last, but not least, the taxation changes that negatively affected the expats last April actually gave the local pilots a salary raise after taxes.

That's the reason why Polish and Hungarians who work from home are generally happy and expats are generally not.

So as long as all the expats don't leave the company at once and without complying to their 4 months notice - I believe the things are going according to the plan.

These are just my thoughts - I am neither in the management nor in "the know" :)

Ladies and gents,

The aim of Wizz Air is get rid of the expats, unfortunately. Even the Hungarian crews are getting piss off as well. On top of that, recruitment team is having seriously problems to find suitable romanian candidates for fill the gaps (in case of RO bases). At this stage, motivation of the crews has drop completely.

Time to leave :confused:

D777, yes I believe you are mistaken. I can tell you for a fact that in the company I work for, I have the pleasure of flying most days with people from just about most corners of the world. Let's compare logbooks, mine reads like a guest list at the United Nations.

I don't know what it says in the BA black book of recruitment, but I doubt sincerely if there's any sort of policy to be judenfrei or exclude Eastern Europeans. Aside from being illegal, it's not actually the sort of thing they care about. By and large, corporate UK left that behind many years ago. As long as you're legal to live & work in the UK, meet the aptitude requirements they set and have the correct qualifications I'm sure they'd probably not even think to ask which racially-obsessed part of Eastern Europe one might be from.

Whilst I respect your opinion that an airline ought to take responsibility for employing pilots from its own country, I disagree. An unemployment agency has that responsibility. The airline is a business, its responsibility is to do the best by itself. If we take your argument to its logical conclusion, a a citizen of whatever country you should take responsibility for buying products made in that country. Enjoy your Serbian computer, your Lithuanian car or your Polish mobile phone won't you?

Quote: "Last, but not least, the taxation changes that negatively affected the expats last April actually gave the local pilots a salary raise after taxes."

SC,

Can you elaborate a little bit please? What taxation changes have taken place last April?

@Bike:

If you are not aware, many pilots in Wizzair are not employees, but "service providers" (call it freelance or mercenaries, it's todays reality, and not by choice). These freelance pilots have no pension scheme contribution from the company, no medical coverage when they get ill, no personal insurance supported by the airline. They also must take care of their own taxation system and declarations (as is written in some contracts "solely responsible" for income tax). Of course it may be seen as an advantage, but the reality is that when you contribute to income tax in your country of residence, you get some benefits in return, maybe unemployment benefits, social security or retirement, you name it.

In April last year, Wizzair has decided to take money from the pilots wages in the name of their new Swiss fiscal office address. Some received amendments of contracts to sign, some not, but in 12 months it equals to the second pay cut. The difference with any other form of income tax? The pilot gets NOTHING in return! No social security, no retirement scheme, just that right to pay tax! So pay for what? I don't know, and nobody can give a plausible (plausible in this sense means not take pilots for mushrooms) explanation.

The subject of tax has been raised in another thread I believe.

:D:D:D:D:D