Fantastic Job San Expiry. You stand above, way above many others....

They asked at the phone interview if I would consider paying for the TR and if I would consider a 70% contract. In both cases I said yes I would consider them, but in the light of the package as a whole. I did say that 70% of £40 k is only £28 k and if they asked for for £20 k for the type rating that would leave me only £8 k for the year to live on. I haven't received a rejection letter yet though.

They also asked if I had any applications progressing with other airlines.

Regards and good luck

The sad truth is that Jet2 are going to be offering sh*t 70% contracts and expecting you to pay for your Type Rating too.

I am pleased people are saying no, but I also (sadly) expect people will say yes. Hopefully not enough people though, because we really need to see an increase in salary, etc, not a decrease.

There are a lot of people looking to get out of Jet2 because all that has happened over the last few years is a reduction in Ts&Cs and this latest joke of an offer for new people is the next rung down on the sh*tty ladder.

Yes, it's great if you are on a 100% contract, with annual increments and live around the corner from the airport, but how many people does this now relate to? Not many.

Spike

This combined with the multiple reports of candidates being asked if they will accept poor terms and conditions (70% salary and working plus pay (quote) £20,000 for type rating), would lead me to support the theory that as much as anything else, Jet2 management are trying to get a feel for the current market.

I suppose previously they would simply think that it is an employer's market, but now that the Middle East recruitment appears to have changed the conditions of that market, they are trying to find out by how much, which is good. Encouraging to see plenty of naysayers above, which proves the market for employees is becoming better than it was.

Hours during winter months.
 

Hi folks,

Can anyone give an indication as to how many, if any at all, hours are flown by pilots during winter months?

Do the guys on 70% get used at all or are you dormant while the smaller number of 100% contracts cover the work?

Thanks.

Yes max continuous, 70% means 5 months off over the winter to sit at home bored. You'll probably have to do your annual ground school refresher and 6 monthly sim during that time, making it harder to get a fill in job. I recall a figure of 300 hours are allowed to be flown at another airline during the 5 months off. Those on 100% will cover the winter programme, depending on how many are left to do so.

Newly promoted Captains who have been forced onto 70/80% contracts were given a couple of flights a month over last winter to keep their hand in. Whether the same would happen with low houred pilots, who knows?

Adding fuel to the fire, the original part time contract a couple of years ago was for 80% - offered to existing Jet2 pilots to take part time. Last year new joiners were offered 70%. So who knows, if they get enough takers this time they may only offer 60%? Don't sell yourself short, it's a slippery slope!

Just like to add my admiration to those guys who have said no to the joke of a 70% and paying for your type rating. As stated by others the T&C's here have been in a steady decline over the last few years and unfortunately while people are still willing to accept these crappy offers the company will carry on exploiting this area.

Definitely think the company are testing the water, seeing who and what they can get for the lowest possible price, not sure that's going to work for them in the long term!

Problem is they need to pay closer attention to the guys already here, it's no good recruiting now if the guys that are here at getting pissed off and leaving, makes no bloody sense to me!

Should I be offered a phone interview I will say 'I will consider whatever you have to offer' to whatever they offer only in the hope of getting a proper interview, and the opportunity to refuse the offer at a later stage. I think that could make a stronger statement about what I think of the Ts & Cs, which I agree are poor, and are not what I really want. It should in no way be construed as me selling out please!

I commend those who have been open and honest about not willing to accept reduced terms and conditions.

Unfortunately, the company won't budge on the 70% stuff. They know they can get away with it. Last year as XL and Globespan had turfed pilots on the market and Thomson and Baby were going through redundancy, there were a huge number of guys available. The pool may be shrinking, but I think there are still too many looking for work. The Cadets will accept anything. I think a starting salary the same as our cabin crew would still yield a bucket load of applications.

The CP has said that he thinks this is the norm for the company for as many years as they can get away with it. I do think having selection criteria based on those willing to get shafted is hardly the right approach, but what do I know. How many good guys are we going to turn away because they just want to be able to put food on their tables?

It all comes down from the CEO and no-one has the balls to stand up to it. If you do, you are out of the door.

Spikedog, thanks for the reply, I suspected that would be the case.

As I see it there are quite a few issues with the 70% contract and in particular for low hours pilots.

I myself am low hours and I am only too aware of my own inexperience and shortcomings. I fail to see how it can provide a solid "backbone" to training to have pilots on board for a summer season and when they are getting their hand in over a busy period to then leave them dormant for 5 months. I understand completely that everyone is quieter over winter but when building experience going from flat-out to thumb twiddling can not be constructive.

On the other hand, if the rumoured recruitment in many carriers goes ahead then perhaps the situation will change and more flying will need to be done, but will that see the contract change to reflect this?!

It also occurs to me that as low hours pilot I would be effectively "bonding" myself to Jet2 for a number of years while gaining experience as the 737 classic rating is increasingly limited in "transferability".

That all being said if I'm offered my first flying job am I going to be able to say no?

I am glad people are being true to themselves .....

70% contract + pay for TR, you can only be greased up at one end I thought....

I did have a look as their most southerly base is near me, but having done 2 years with FC on summer only contract in the past it's not much fun having no life in the summer and siting around doing sod all in winter, trying to find some grubby little short term contract abroad

If enough people with experience say NO to 70% and they can't get enough crew to fly their aircraft they'll have to change it....Simples.!

Well done to everyone who has said no so far, it really is time us pilots grew some balls and stood up for our profession. :D

Well it may have taken me about 2 to 3 weeks of batteling through the technical difficulties of the application, but I have at last managed to get an application in, hope it's not to late though!

Judging by the number of folk here who are not prepared to accept the T & C on offer, I very much doubt it's too late. Whether you will be doing yourself any great favour by saying yes is another matter. You might feel a bit of a t*t if you commit yourself to Jet 2 on an out of date type for 3 years if BA/VS/Big charter etc start offering proper jobs in 6 months time. By the time your loan is paid for it may well be all over and you could be up the road with a fairly useless type rating.

Of course if you are looking for your first big break all bets are off. I bet your granny is already up for sale on ebay. Mine would be.

Not heard a thing myself, despite being on the more experienced side and having flown all sorts of 737 in the past.

... anybody with a positive picture and reasonable T&C numbers, because so far it seems a little bit too much out of proportion! thanks

strengthening attitudes
 

Ok, anybody who checked my recent post will have read that, due to personal circumstances, a 70% contract would have been ok with me.

But, the more I look into it, and certainly the more I read other pilots' views, the more I'm disappointed with the attitude of Jet2 and its competitors.

Low pay is one thing, but low pay with strings attached, is just wrong.

So I will make a stand...

Should I recieve a telephone interview, I'll accept the idea of a 70% contract. Should I then recieve a 'proper' interview, I'll do my best to impress and hopefully recieve an offer of employment. But, leaving it as late as possible, I will flatly refuse any such contract.

If enough of us do this, Jet2 may just realise that they are losing a stream of quality potential employees. As I mentioned in the earlier post, I would like to work there and would work there with a positive attitude; at any of their bases, to suit the company. And I'm sure there are many others like me.

I am a professional pilot, and will always do my best to bring a professional approach to the job; but, equally, I would always hope (expect?) to be treated the same way.

I love my wife, but wouldn't accept being treated like a :mad: from her; so I have formed the opinion that I wouldn't accept it from any HR or Flight Ops Management, either.

Market forces - yes, I am well aware that T's & C's have been driven down relentlessly. That's no reason to lose a sense of our self-worth. I've been out of work, but I'll just about manage to hold onto my dignity and tell Jet2 to stuff 70%.

Not for my benefit. But ours.

Professional Pilot = Professional Contract. Regardless of operator.

Rant over, I'm not looking for a debate, just clearing the decks.

:ok:

Hi all,

To put things into perspective of how bad the 70% would be I have just been offered a job as a train driver on full time paying about £40k per year with yearly increaments therafter.

The required qualifications were GCSE English and Maths.

The recruitment process involved on line application
Telephone interview
An aptitude test training day
Two one day aptitude assesment days including an interview.
Finally another interview with the Ops Manager.

The training will take 6 months which they will pay for while also paying me to do the training.

While I love flying and would chose to continue with this career if I could, I have a 100% mortgage and a 100% family, and may need to look elsewhere in order to support them.

There will come a time soon when things will have to change as there are only so many parents willing to pay £100k for their kids to follow a dream.

While the younger and lower houred single pilots may be prepared to take these conditions those with families may not.

At the end of the day any airline will offer the minimum they can get away with, they are a business after all. If they can offer 70% and get enough takers then they will be happy. But if those takers are all low houred and inexperienced they may have to offer more to those with more experience if they want a mix of skills.

If Jet2 suck up all the spare low houred guys and other airlines come to the market later in the Autumn they will have to raise their terms.

Regards

Just wondering what the PM is: Are they still recruiting and where do I apply!!!:E

Binsleepen, fair play to you....just sad that you can't continue in what should be a more than viable alternative profession.

binsleepen,
Can you give us some idea of the hours requirement for that job ? will they accept 1500 hours on 'thomas' to go direct entry RHS on the 'eurostar' ?

any info appreciated :}