Ryanair New Deal
 

Strange meeting of Ryanair management and pilots in STN today. Polite, informative, honest, no shouting - must be something up! New deal is a pay freeze, new leave system, seaonsal line training pay, EURO 500 charge for non IAA licence and tax on sector pay.

Strange was O'Brien delivered it without any amatuer dramatics - with Wilson and Bellew as Ballroom bouncers.

I fear the worst. PB seems to have flooed airline with 1000 contractors which will stop BALPA, IALPA, ALKA - SELTZER etc... ALso sneaking in 4/3 rosters, 5/3 in new bases, crap leave systems - we will be working all Summer and broke all Winter.

Hounding daily really ill pilots. Trample on the heads of pilots - for your measly bonus - you should be ashamed.

Paying tax on sector pay, Ouch. . . . I thought 50% of what you earned in Ryanair was sector pay ? that is going to hurt, no ? :{

Well guys, I think it's time you all put your balls on the table. If not....

Contract pilots and consecutive waves of cadets each looking out for themselves so as to meet their loan payments. Divide and rule is alive and well at Ryanair. Question is will any of them do something about it or will they cover their eyes until it's too late?

I tell you I wouldn't want to be a cadet or FO there knowing that I'd bought my way into a system that would ultimately spit me out, probably before I'd cleared my debt. Add to that the knowledge that sooner or later I was going to get brushed aside for a cadet in exactly the way I'd bought my way in and it all feels way too cut-throat for me. The pressure must be pretty uncomfortable.

I don't work for you but I believe the Inland revenue are behind the tax on sector pay change. We are currently having to collect reciepts to try and prove that we spend our sector pay on food etc at work to try to keep the tax free part of it.

I'll give it one month before Brookfield adjust their rates of pay and or roster patterns.

Flintstone, I can assure you, many of my friends who came through the cadet system are members of BALPA including myself but the question is what use are contractors in a unionisation vote? I'm not sure on the answer if we're eligable to vote or help in any way?

You wanna get Ryanair back?????

All LTCs should submit a letter they stop linetraining!

All problems solved!

Ryanair pilots will stay on the current contracts nothing will happen.

McBruce.

Your and your friends action in joining the union is laudable but it's clear from these forums that there are those who aren't so team spirited. As for whether or not you can make a difference I'd say you could IF you can achieve some solidarity. Even if the split is 50/50 contract pilots/employees could RYR function if those 50% stopped work?

How much is the tax on the sector pay then? Did that get mentioned during the meeting, am on A/L at the mo so couldn't make it to the meeting.
Just trying to work out how much this is going to impact. And I assume this is affecting all the UK bases if it's the f*&$ing Inland Revenue that have got their hands on this one? :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Does anyone have the actual full details of what they are proposing.
Flintstone - you can't blame this on the cadets
As for any cadets joining MAKE SURE everyone of them is a member of BALPA at some point in the future you may find it usefull especially if something worse than the rome or limoges were to occur.

Isn't that the idea of us being contractors though?

Means we cannot interfere in the company as we are not part of it?

As a contractor with any company, no matter the industry the company, has the expectations the contracting employee to perform in accordance with the terms of the contract... as the contracting employee has the expectations of the company to perform in accordance with the terms of the contract too.

Thus the reason for the company using the services of contract employees... no grounds required for termination of services... same for the contracting employee as they can terminate their relationship with the company too.

Depends what you mean by "this" but RYR playing with T&C's comes about because your managment know they have a fractured workforce. Those who who bought their way in will bend over and take it up the, well......brown star because they have massive financial commitments and don't want to rock the boat. Would MOL and his cronies even try this if instead of having self sponsored you/they were simply bonded?

Of course not.

"Thus the reason for the company using the services of contract employees... no grounds required for termination of services... same for the contracting employee as they can terminate their relationship with the company too. "


Not without 3 months notice or within 12 months of the contract or a €5k fine, apparently.

In the presence of much better terms and conditions elsewhere and a further downward spiral in ryanair pitiful terms and conditions this week.one would want to be ABSOLUTELY BONKERS to join ryanair.If you do join,you will within 6 months see the error of your ways and most likely regret it for a long time to come.I f you do,i will be one of the people bending your ear constantly about joining a union.come on in if you can afford the loss.

EVERYONE I know who flies for ryanair enjoys it. they have been there for longer than 6 months and are still very happy with no plans to move.

Funny that, the people flying for them like it the people not don't.

Not saying its the best company, but its certainly not the worst!

Nick

Tax on sector pay
 

Nick,

I seen on previous threads your waiting to do your TR for RYR. Once you are online you're views will probably change on this subject, you may enjoy the flying (as I thoroughly do) but it doesn't mean you are happy with the way your terms and conditions are going. If you wish to or get offered to move onto a RYR contract in the future then you're future has just taken a very big hit and in 4/5 years time, how many more hits will it take? will you help protect it now or later when its worth slightly less? hypothetically If I were to tell you by the time you become captain you will earn 20% less than whats on the table today, would you be happy? I wouldn't be happy so I give my support to BALPA. It may or may not make a difference but at least I know I tried...

I would suggest any one joining the company or already in the door then join BALPA and support them so we can have a future say in matters. Right now we have no say.

I have been a BALPA member for over a year now.

It may do agreed only time will tell.

I just take everything I hear on these forums with a truck load of salt.

Thanks for the reply


Nick

So by the looks of it t&c have taken a hit this week then:rolleyes:. Why do most of you guys come on here and put the onus on cadets to do something. Most of them are coming into the job after forking out ten's of thousands of euro on initial training and type ratings, and they can't be blamed for taking the only option available to them in these recessionary times. All you out there would do the same if the bank had their hand out to you for 1000-1200 a month. Cash flow is all that matters to them so they won't rock the boat. What are all you guys that come on here complaining day in day out doing about it, after all you've all been in the company years, the same years that have seen your t&c plummet. Are you guys not to blame at all for letting it get this far. Will you refuse to work then based on the latest deal?? Don't think so, but yet the rest of us have to listen to you rant on about BALPA this Cadets that. Excuse my ignorance but what can BALPA do in Ryr, they don't recognise unions do they??

OK SO HERES WHAT WE DO

Someone put a really good idea on here for once I thought.

there is power in FR to take on MOL with his greedy plans and hundereds of cheap F/O's lined up.

all LTC's and SFI's get together and send the same email to management saying that they no longer wish to do line training and only will fly as regular captains apart from doing essential line checks for re-currency, and will continue to do so until all pilots have full rostas of at least 4 days on with minimum 1 standby on all weeks.

once there have been a few aircraft deliverys and crews are running short and flying max hours then type ratings can start again at a rate to cover new aircraft and not more than that.

it will take nothing more than a group email sending out and a chosen date to submit it, BALPA could even get onboard at the same time to help with any legal issues, i will gladly join up for that and then we can all stand up at once for this rather than every man for themselfs.

Good idea, but ......... (breathes big sigh), that will require unity and that (i.e. the lack of it) has been our biggest problem.

I can't see all the line trainers standing together on this one ....

sector pay
 

Hi all,

if sector pay is (lunch money etc) the revenue will also be going after truck drivers through out the uk as they get paid expenses per day.

with the amount of trucking companies/drivers in the uk there would be uproar with the road haulage association/unions etc on taxing this income.

one example eddie stobart transport has around 2000 trucks on the road so he could easily have about 3500 drivers who get paid lunch expenses(who will be pretty pi:mad:d off if there taxed on it).
if possible could you get balpa to get in contact with other unions whose members would be affected by this and have a mass protest?

god help them (revenue) if they try and bring it in here

The problem here is not with Ryanair demanding that the rate of tax ( it was always taxed but at a lower rate ) is increased. That has been done by my fellow Scotsman :} a Mr Brown :yuk:
The problem is that Ryanair always said that sector pay was net of tax, but now that the tax rate is going up they are trying to bludgeon through a deal where that is no longer the case. I.E. they don't take the hit = the pilot takes a cut in pay.
In most airlines it is a big deal, but more so in Ryanair as sector pay/duty pay/ whatever you call it - is a higher percentage of total earnings than in most other companies.

how to get to RYR
 

Ok, howabout this....
What are the two things that Ryanair prides itself with, and go on and on with in commercials and magazines etc???
1. lowest fares
2. on time performance
So why dont you kick them where it hurts the most.
I suppose the fares a pilot cant do very much about, but staying on time they can!
Just hold your taxi to a maximum of 10 knots, and fly 0.74, and dont try to negotiate shortcuts. ITS SO SIMPLE!
You are still going to work, you still get paid, you dont have to strike but guess what. Ryanair wont be the most punctual airline in europe any more will they.....
just a thought....

Hurting their performance won't give us our terms and conditions back, only make them worse if they suffer more losses. You don't want to goto war with RYR without a major voice on your shoulder. They will win...

WTF is this democratic voting process?

If you don't vote or abstain we will count that as a vote for option 1?

Mugabe vote more like!