Jobs in Europe with only ICAO licence (not JAA)
 

Hey All,

Just wondering what companies (jet or turboprop) in Europe employ with an ICAO ATPL only not the JAA one.

I'm in Australia wanting to move to the EU (anywhere) with TT 3500 hours including 2200 Multi and 2500 Command and only the ICAO ATPL.

Any info about the companies would also be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

NF:ok:

See the MK Interview thread on the Africa forum, might be of interest...

Basically, none. If you fly in Europe for a Euro carrier, you have to have a JAA licence. It is possible to get a validation of an ICAO licence under JAA, but you may find the hours requirements a problem. Also, you can't put a type on a validated licence - so you would need the type rating on your ICAO licence. And finally, you would have to complete the requirements for a JAA licence within 12 months of arrival.

Having said that, we (and many others) are recruiting non-Euros and putting them through the grinder. Not 146 rated are you?

Of course, you will also need the right to live and work in the EU, or qualify under one of the greencard schemes.

PM me if you need more info.

The problem with the "I have an ICAO licence" type questions is that it means little. ICAO do not issue licences. Aside from a handful of countries almost every nation on Earth subscibes to the ICAO. That includes The United States and each European nation. Therefore the FAA and JAA are licences that are also issued by ICAO member nations and supra national authorities that in turn are made up from individual ICAO member states.

Each country and supra national authority (in the case of the JAA) will set their own requirements for for the issue, conversion or validation of their own licence when based on a "foreign licence". That requirement will almost certainly depend on the individual circumstances of the licence holder.
It is bit like asking "will I need a visa to visit the USA if I hold a passport issued by a United Nations Member state ?" Who knows, it depends on which member state and your individual circumstances.

Presumably your ATPL is an Australian one and not an ICAO one ?

If you hold an Australian issued licence and you want to work in Europe, then you will ordinarily be required to first obtain a national licence or if applicable a JAA licence from the national authority concerned. The only exception would be if you were flying an Australian registered aircraft or obtained a temporary validation of your own licence from the state in question. The latter is unlikely unless the state was satisfied that a genuine need existed for a temporary period. This sometimes happens when a foreign carrier is leased in to provide aircraft and or crews on a temporary basis.

Just to expand on that slightly - it is virtually impossible to get an initial issue licence in a JAA member state, as anything other than a JAA licence. Most national licences have gone the way of the dodo in Europe.

ICAO does set a de facto standard for licencing, so it does have some (admittedly little) meaning. An Australian licence is, by definition, an ICAO licence.

Not strictly true. There are plenty of non-Euro pilots flying in Europe on validations, for example all the American Mesaba pilots that went to Cityjet. A validation is generally the first port of call. As previously explained, you won't be able to obtain a national licence, it will have to be a JAA one.

Funnily enough, Australia will happily issue you with an Aussie ATPL if you hold an ICAO ATPL of any description. There are one or two exams, mostly law/instrument law, but no flight test. I didn't believe it until I tried it.

Working in Europe with no JAA
 

Flying in Europe is almost impossible for ayone without a JAA license and no work permit, it's way easier to meet and marry a euro chick, or get 500-1000 TPIC on an ATR, A320, 737, CRJ, or Do328 prop or jet...once you have that there are opportunities that will sponsor you for a permit and give you a job, I have friends that work in Europoe with FAA licenses (Validation) for various airlines,, but they are no low timers,, all Captains with time on type.

Good luck

G'day Night flight,

Not true what you've been told above, you can get a job in EU without a JAA licence.

Of course the easiest ones would be the corporate jobs because a lot of A/C are Non JAA registered, but also with the airlines.

It really depends on individual countries.....the JAA rules are common rules that should be follow but countries can still have their own, let me give you some examples:

In UK you can get a 1 year validation, once in your lifetime (this applies to few countries) but in Ireland you can get an indefinite 6 month validation where as in Holland it is a 1 year indefinite validation.

Now you also have to look at company requirements (not CAA), ie. Ryanair is an Irish company, they could give you a job on a perpetual validation but they will ask you to get a JAA licence with 18 months......don't ask me why 18 months, that how it is!
(For info quite a few Qantas guys on unpaid leave are currently working for Ryanair)

Here's an other example, in UK if you have more than 3000H on A/c above 30T in which 1500 is PIC, you can get a UK ATPL after doing only 2 exams.......(as far as I know UK is the only country in EU doing that).

In Eastern Europe try SkyEurope or Wizz Air, they also employ guys with Non JAA licences.....

Good luck!

Cheers :cool: