Mommy & daddy !!!??

When I was a TriStar Capt at Air Lanka in 83, $2700 a month, housing not included

Flintstone

It's called Market forces.

When the supply exceeds demand, the price (salaries) drop. Thats business. Get used to it.

It's the same in every profession known. Have a look at Junior Doctors for example...18 hour shifts for buttons.

And as for the Band of Brothers notion that we should all pull together.....

I'm afraid that if I have to feed my family, I'll do whatever work I can, for whatever pay I can get

In nov.after paying my rent I was left with $85 to live for a month.Made it,thanks to cheap noodles....... .The ripple-effect of sept 11 I guess.. .Been out of the Holland-loop for 2 years now,but this is still common practice.. .The big aviation-schools(yes the 0-ATPL ones)promise you the world.Like a "garanteed F/O internship",valuable jet/turbine experience etc.. .Almost fell for it too...couldn't afford it though.. .Small carriers/charters/freighters sometimes have an exclusive deal with one of the big schools.. .They only accept their students and make'em pay for their type-rating.Up to $45000..... .Somebody I used to know did this with Tulip-air out of Rotterdam.Spend a year standby,meaning the'd call him and he had to be there in 45min.Any time of the day.. .I'll work for low wages(if it's a step up or leading to..)but this is plain stupid.. .Market-forces...yes..big pool of sharks...also... .Just remember,it takes a lot of hard work to get anywhere,a couple of years of your life and don't give all your money to the first magician that blows a lot of smoke.

To all those people that quote market forces I would dearly love to approach your boss and offer to do your job for 50% of what you cost, then I'll go quote "market forces" to you, see how you like it. Bet you change your tune pretty damn quickly. A bit like the US of A, talks a good game when it comes to free markets, but in actually is a controlled protectionist based economy.

Harry

Harry,

Been there, had it done to me, and what could I do about it.....the square root of FA. Similarly, my current employer has told us, "Sorry , no pay rise, cut back on allowances", and what can I do about it? See above

And what do BALPA say? Hey keep calm guys, lucky to have jobs etc etc.

My point is just that, you are only as valuable as the guy who walks in the door and offers to do your job for less. Same is true for all jobs, and the sooner we get to grips with this the better.

flintstone : jou said....

[quote]If someone is qualfied and capable of doing the job they should be paid accordingly. No haggling, no excuses and none of this nonsense about paying peanuts because the pilots are only doing it for the experience/it's a short contract/they owe their trainers money. <hr></blockquote>

It's a bit of an arogant attitude to call your colleagues that, wouldn't you say??? Most of these girls and boys are on the brink of bankrupcy and theire parents are about to lose theire home! just because "fellow colleagues" like you say they are undermining things! use youre brain and blaim the institutions and company's that allow or actualy susstain this scheme. Most are prommissed a glorious carreer...just sign here. I've been there and i almost opted for a job where i would earn less and pay for "training" all set up by a "school". Those people should be blaimed and i think theire fine colleagues should make a stand that the company's are not making any deals with companys who let theire "employees" pay theire way!

sorry if i offended any of my colleagues, but i've been on the road of financial ruine myself because of people lying and extorsion.

th th tha thats all folks!

I was contacted by a gentleman searching for some advice on setting up a scheme for newly qualified ATPL's. He wanted people to pay him about £12,000 or so for a Tristar (or might've been DC-10) type rating, and in return they would get a job where they worked for nothing but flight allowances. Considering this gentleman in his e-mails changed to name of his airline about three times, I thought there was something a bit fishy going on and I haven't heard anything since.

It makes me laugh that during CAP509 training, you hear people saying how they would gladly work for free, or just FDA, but as soon as they get a job, start whingeing like the rest of us. Some airlines will continue to get away with offering derisory salaries, because people are desperate for jobs, especially at the moment. Airlines are all run by accountants, otherwise I'm sure we'd all be minted and have little to complain about.

Well said Harry Wragg. Sauce for the goose and all that.

ADC. Firstly, I have exactly the same attitude as you when it comes to keeping my family fed. I'll do any job I have to (and I've had some beauties) but I will not stoop to undercutting those I consider to be colleagues. Maybe I have a somewhat rose-tinted view of the world but at least I will never have to worry about who I might sit next to on the flight deck or opposite at the interview board. As we all know, it's a small world. Instead of attacking me shouldn't you be directing your ire at the "...guy who walks in the door and offers to do your job for less..."?

Pointer, I wish you would make yours clearer. I'm assuming that English is not your first language but despite having read your post many times it still doesn't make sense.

You pasted in a quote from me and accuse me of calling my colleagues something. Nowhere in that passage do I call anyone anything. I was expressing the opinion that they should be paid properly. I am on their side, geddit?!

On the other hand if we are talking about the sort of person who flys for nothing (or worse) then that's a different story. For those people I have nothing but contempt and before you accuse me of being arrogant again I would point out that back in the days when I held a shiny new CPL I was offered similar opportunities and turned them down.

I'm sorry if you were taken in by a flying school who made empty promises. That's an entirely different subject but if you want to let off steam start a thread. Trust me, it's good for the soul.

[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: Flintstone ]</p>

ouch - doesn't minimum wage come into play. I know it's crap but it is better than nought!