Future Ryanair pilot be aware …
 

I joined Ryanair as contract captain (Brookfield). In my contract, the working pattern is specified as follow:

• Flying in an assigned Base – 5 x on , 3 x off, 5 x on, 3 x off, 5 x on, 3 x off,…etc
• Flying out of Base – 5 x off, 5 x on ,5x off, 5 x on, 5 x off, 5 x on, 5 x off, … AND you get €20 per block hour to include all expenses when flying out of Base.

I let them know that I was ONLY interested in flying a 5/5 sequence with no base in witch we agreed.

After 4 months in the company, I am in a 5/3 sequence based at STN. So I am commuting from/to home (I am not a UK citizen) witch is really pain in the :mad: when you only have 3 days OFF per sequence.

Multiple emails and phone calls never changed the situation :{ and now I am about to leave the company :sad: . They promised me every week they would change this but I am still waiting!

Furthermore:

• I waited for my simulator sessions for 3 weeks then 2 month for my line training without being remunerated or receiving any compensation.
• I came from home to STN for only 1 day flying.
• I showed up when crew control forgot to inform me they had change my flight to standby.
• I have accepted some very last minute roster changes to help the crew control staff.
• I have been based at STN while I never asked it.

In return:

• They never gave me the 5/5 sequence.
• They never paid me the 20€ per hour due when on 5/5 sequence (no base).
• They rostering me on standby duty more than 4 times within 28 days period which is against a clause in the contract.

So, if you apply for Ryanair as contract pilot, make sure you clearly put in your contract what you want because they will try to screw you up.

Furthermore, you can't be based anywhere you want: The majority of the
finest bases have a long waiting list.:{

Happy landings.

Leo can explain this... you must be confused... Ryanair would never behave like that!
 

rechecked there must be some confusion here. You are referring to the airline with the happiest and best paid pilots in the universe who enjoy unparalled benefits including stable rosters and their leave when they want it. It really is quite hard to believe that they would promise you something and not keep their word. What makes it so suspicious is the bit about waiting This is the kind of thing being reported by their full-time employees - but it cannot really be true that they delay full-time pilot employees for 8-10 months without pay. Evil propaganda! Must be.

Ohhhh... and the same thing applies to the promises about pay which were not honoured ....

Ohhhh... and the roster pattern that changes to meet THEIR needs regardless of what your contract says ....

Ohhhh... and the failure to adhere to what the contract says about other matters ....

Ohhhh... deary, deary me.... if it is not Ryanair yet again behaving badly.

Where oh where is Leo Hairy Camel to explain to us why such dreadful lies are told about his wonderful airline.

Calling Leo, Calling Leo, - come hither Leo and explain all ....

Re-Checked,
Thus you have a dispute with the contract provider and not Ryanair and, no, I do not work for Brookfield or indeed Ryanair but I have a good knowledge of what the contract should read.

Contractually is should be 5 on/3 off regardless if from base or away from base, this is a worst case scenario and 5 on/5 off may indeed be what actually happens.

In an agency FR contract you must have a base even if you never see it there must be a base, indeed it would probably be illegal (CAA) for you to not have a base.

The contract clearly states that you are paid per block hour thus no fly, and flying is not guaranteed, equals no pay thus you could be on contract via Brookfield for an entire year and if you don't fly then you don't receive a single cent. OK, it's a sh1t contract but you're the one that signed it!

The remainder of your complaint seems to regard that you consider yourself based at your home rather than an international airport, indeed a Ryanair landing strip somewhere, but you're the one that volunteered to be of no fixed base!

Your problem(s), your complaint(s), in the main, seem to lie with Brookfield. It would seem that they bullsh1tted you regarding the contract and you fell for it, if you have any of their bullsh1t in writing then I would guess that you have reasonable grounds to terminate the contract.

You didn't apply to Ryanair, you applied to Brookfield, take your complaint(s) up with them. We all have a choice in this world, we can take it or leave it.

I think re-checked is trying to say that he is leaving it!

I've flown recently with several contract F/O's and they told me similar stories . You have a contract with Brookfield but you are called by RYR crewcontrol for roster changes . And , believe me , they don't give a damn about your personal problems .:ok:

Haruki, At it again are we??

I worked on contracts for agencies and of course the company you are placed with use their own crew control and operations system to roster you and to call you from standby etc.

It's quite normal dear boy.

If they call you and you dont want to go, why go? Why allow them to make their problem, your problem? Feel like a month off - why not take it?

I thought that was the beauty of working for an agency. Or do they have their hooks in you in some other way?

Every Ryaniar pilot be it a first officer, cadet, or captain who has had their simulator or line training delayed has been on the payroll since day one. Conractors on the other hand are not on the payroll until the safety pilot is released during line training.

captjns - do not know what ryanair you work for,but pilots are most certainly not on the payroll while awaiting training,most especially low hour cadets.

And contract Captains remain on a F/O rate, after the release of any safety pilot, whilst they are under the instruction of a Training Captain.

captjns you say: This is very inaccurate indeed - in fact it is just plain wrong. Furthermore, there was a thread here in this very forum a few weeks agon stated by one of the pilots concerned pointing out how long he had gone without pay. Nobody these days gets paid ANYTHING until after they get rid of the safety pilot (and then the rate of pay varies). The periods between when people paid for their Type Rating and STILL have not even got close to being paid currently ranges from 6-11 months. These are not exceptional instances. The so-called CAE roster will give you an idea of how many there are.

Captjns, You are talking crap. I was waiting 6 months for line training and not a penny. Ditto the 6 other guys on my course. Ditto the 10 0r 12 other cadets I know at my base.

Are you another flight simmer?

Look all over this forum, there's tails of this very thing. NO PAY during waiting for your line check or anything.

Why do some people never learn? Join a decent 737 operator if you have experience.......my employer gave guys a start date, then realised the training department wouldn't be able to get training started on that time scale. They telephoned the low houred pilots concerned and asked them if they could start at a later date. Many had handed their notice in. The company said ok, don't worry, start on the original date offered, come to Luton, we'll put you in a hotel and pay you, in return you can work in Ops for a few weeks and do something useful. Full pay plus Duty Pay 24hrs a day, hotel on B&B basis. No catches. That's the way it should be done.

What has happened to this industry and the pilots willing to accept such conditions when plenty are clearly warning them in advance?

PP

Yeah F#$%* them though, am I right pressman! They don't count after all..... Still your not the only one with that attitude.

The only Captains who got paid on my course were those who threatend to resign, other meeker chaps just sucked it up.

well, i also know a contract captain who is waiting for line intro and he used to get paid 3000£ and recently ryr/brook? raised it to 4500£. already for month...
but it seems strange that some are getting paid, whilst others not...

anyway good luck to everyone concerned :-)

As a couple (or lot) of other guys, I am also waiting for line training. With me together from our previous company we (all more than 2000hrs) are 6 guys, and we are all paid basic salary from the very first day of ground training.

Hi Phileas!!
 

I have a question for you:

In your opion, What is the best way to fly Ryan?
May I be employed directly by Ryan, with no agency?
What do you think about Ryan?

KInd regards

Rolandolero











QUOTE=Phileas Fogg]Re-Checked,
Thus you have a dispute with the contract provider and not Ryanair and, no, I do not work for Brookfield or indeed Ryanair but I have a good knowledge of what the contract should read.
Contractually is should be 5 on/3 off regardless if from base or away from base, this is a worst case scenario and 5 on/5 off may indeed be what actually happens.
In an agency FR contract you must have a base even if you never see it there must be a base, indeed it would probably be illegal (CAA) for you to not have a base.
The contract clearly states that you are paid per block hour thus no fly, and flying is not guaranteed, equals no pay thus you could be on contract via Brookfield for an entire year and if you don't fly then you don't receive a single cent. OK, it's a sh1t contract but you're the one that signed it!
The remainder of your complaint seems to regard that you consider yourself based at your home rather than an international airport, indeed a Ryanair landing strip somewhere, but you're the one that volunteered to be of no fixed base!
Your problem(s), your complaint(s), in the main, seem to lie with Brookfield. It would seem that they bullsh1tted you regarding the contract and you fell for it, if you have any of their bullsh1t in writing then I would guess that you have reasonable grounds to terminate the contract.
You didn't apply to Ryanair, you applied to Brookfield, take your complaint(s) up with them. We all have a choice in this world, we can take it or leave it.[/QUOTE]

pressman - you said Can you give us an approximate date for when "was" actually was?

None, absolutely none, of the people I have spoken to who is on the long waiting list for Line Training is being paid. (By the way, you may not have intended it, but your remark about "low houred cadets" gives the impression that, because they are "low houred cadets" it somehow was O.K. not to pay them, but pay the others).

pressman thanks for the clarification.

However, I disagree with your statement "they are paid from day 1 along with DECs". Some may be from time to time, but it has not been the norm over the last 12-18 months. The fact that you have come across some exceptions does not make such an assertive statement correct. The number TODAY who remain unpaid and locked in a "training delay trap" is substantial.

I was definately paid from day one of joining ryanair while training ( Im an experienced FO on Ryanair contract) so was everyone else apart from brookfield contractors etc who only get paid from flying and the cadets who I believe are paid when they start line training

Just for the record - and mainly for those thinking of joining Ryanair - I absolutely stand by what I said above, which is that there are a substantial number of pilots, both highly experienced and inexperienced, who are "employed" by Ryanair (at THIS moment) but not being paid. In many cases they have remained without pay for many many months, even though they paid "up front" for a type rating.

The fact that two contributors above have made statements to the contrary (both written in general "everybody" terms) does not mean that they are right. It only means that, as usual with Ryanair, there are no generally true statements that can be made. Some people do better than others, depending upon circumstances.

It also tells us that Ryanair increasingly has to make some concessions to market conditions.

Wise applicants to Ryanair would do well to take the warnings seriously and make sure that Ryanair provides them with all promises and undertakings IN WRITING BEFORE they sign anything. This was always good advice and will always be good advice when dealing with Ryanair.

So how does someone go directly with RyanAir, instead of Brookfield. I applied on the RyanAir website and the interview offer I got was from Brookfield. Looking at the comments here I am thinking that it would be best to turn them down.

Ironwalt Brookfield is, for all practical purposes, Ryanair. Except for you. This is the same trick they use with the cabin crew, which is to use intermediary organisations to employ and train people on different terms and conditions. Very good for them, especially in P.R. and legal terms. The fact that an application to Ryanair ends up with a Brookfield offer tells you all you need to know.

Rhood what you say is undoubtedly true. But it does not change the reality for those who are not being paid. If you are not being paid the typical Ryanair argument that it has "nothing to do with them" is absolute codswallop.

All the signs are that Brookfield is the means used to achieve the non-payment of Ryanair pilots. But nobody should be in any doubt that there is not much difference between the two organisations in practice.

Some info for you
 

Three of ten F/O's I have flown with recently are leaving . The same goes for Captains .
Majority of A/L applications of people I know have been denied and there is no Loss Of Licence Insurance any more .
So , once again , read carefully all the info here or somewhere else before making your decisions . Don't be fooled by advert even if it appeares on this site .
Good luck! :ok: