The information on Ryanair posted in post 7 on this thread was already out of date when it was posted. I understand it is continuously updated, so does anyone have a new version and why have we not seen an update here? Somebody must have a copy.

Jinkster the answer to your query is that after the television programme, the roster pattern was changed considerably, with much of the work being done by contractors. People doing 95-99.5 hours a month suddenly found themselves with minimal work.

Both claims are true.

Not sure which FTLs you refer to, but CAP371 certainly does (not that I am defending it). The items that affect a FDP length are; duty start time and number of sectors. Generally speaking, the more unsocial the start time the fewer hours you can do, and the more sectors you do the fewer duty hours you can do. Do Ryanair pilots work under some other system that does not work like this?

PP

It is very simple really. Ryanair had a bunch of pilots stalled in training which was a mess last winter 05/06. The previous management left or were fired. PB came in with a new team.

The training dept is fixed, rostering and got pilots back on line. Now they are managing to the last hour each pilots roster individually. They have pilots now to cover new a/c and the plan is that each will work 70 hours a month until March. Simple really.

Sorry Nash that was a joke, normaly within 24hrs after the online application you receive an e-mail;-) Bonne chance;-)
Oli

Pilot Pete But Ryanair are not governed by CAP 371 are they!

I know nothing about Ryanair, but they are compared to Southwest Airlines?
Ok.

So it must be a secret over there in Ireland, the UK and in Europe that Southwest pilots are, as a whole, the best paid B-737 airline pilots in the US (whether including extra trips or not), if not in the world? Many of the older SWA pilots and Flight Attendants did very, very well with shares of stock after it split several times over many years-the comparison?

Southwest appears to have been based upon and operated by a policy of keeping staff morale high and encouraging teamwork and enjoying the job. This is a very rare concept in recent memory for a large, US airline. Most upper managements are in it for themselves and to throw benefits to the Boards of Directors. Southwest has grown very carefully, and their marketing has been based only upon studious, gradual growth, avoiding the very typical corporate ego pitfalls and traps which have doomed and consumed dozens and dozens and dozens of US airlines, large and small.

Many of those which were doomed had the lowest labor costs. But isn't that an apparent contradiction?

I have trouble understanding how to improve morale by nickeling and diming (looking at tiny chicken s**t) staff for each ball point pen or bag of salty peanuts, from everything that I've read about the industry and those executives who displayed true examples of leadership. What a very rare commodity in the US airline industry, when a combination of talent for inspiring people joins up with true motivation in order to guide and position an airline for long-term success!
Not just sucking out any short-term costs, no matter how disappointed and disillusioned the passengers are (what? no more meals or pillows?), then lifting the handles, squeezing the triggers on a zero zero ejection seat for a guaranteed extremely "golden parachute" retirement (so they can build a much larger home at Lake Tahoe, then return to damage another airline).:hmm:

The latest bond figure is $15,000 decreasing over 5 years. This is if you are 737 300-900 rated, but have never flown the NG. They also have different basic pay rates depending on whether you have flown the NG or not.........why not just go to EZY where it's a little more transparrent.

In other words South West is nothing like Ryanair

In other words, Ryanair is nothing like SouthWest!:hmm:

Ryanair like SouthWest? Sounds like typical boardroom BS. Like most things that come out of a boardroom - BS, plain lies or evangelical humour!

Forgeard anybody? :rolleyes:

Different company cultures and qualification of employees hired at each.

Thank's for that easy....I knew we could get there in the end. You have a very good point to put it mildly about transarecy.

Cheers, Harves

I read that guide several months back. From converations rec3ently with some Ryan guys it seems that things are even worse now! Can I get on the repa website if i'm not a ryan pilot?

Yes things are going from bad to worse ..... much worse. And no apparently we cant get in to REPA if were not employed by FR

Interview
 

Hi,got the email for a interview/sim assesment with Ryanair.I advised them that i have the FAA ATPL 2600hrs TURBINE TIME.Are they winding me up or do they get some dispensation for you to do the JAA ATPL.I dont want to do the interview and then be told I have to do the 14 theory exams before being employed,do they have some magic way around this????Also I have never flown the 737.Would appreciate any feedback at all!

Camprax,

As far as I am aware you can validate your licence with the IAA for one year, probably longer as it's all about money. You can do the 14 exams if you like and obtain the JAA ATPL during your first year of validation, but it's alot of work especially if you are going to be doing 12 hour duties.

As you don't have the rating on the 737 they may ask you to pay for this or they may bond you. You'll go in on the FO rate which might be anywhere between 45 - 75 euro an hour depending on which day of the week you start.......more than likely you won't get offered a permanent position and will be forced on the Brookfield contract.

You need to pay for everything while training, you'll have to pay for your medical, licence conversion, and maybe work permit if from the States. You wont get payed until after line check, so budget for at least 3 months from start to finish before you are on the payroll, well could be longer as you'll need to do a type rating......maybe 6 months.

Sorry lads repaweb.org is not open to non employees, but in the future it might have limited access.

Posted twice..............................

Bond
 

Hey easymoney thanks for the reply.I wont need a work permit as I have UK Pspt.Do you have to get the loan for yourself for the type rating or does the company act as a guarantor for it and you pay back the financial institution?What can you expect to take home on Line salary as FO.Thanks in advance for the reply the website only says the company pays training for guys rated on medium jets but is a bit vague on how you are expected to "raise" funds for the type.
camprax

Any funds will need to be sorted by yourself. I was already typed but it's close to 30K euro for the rating.

The salary depends on where you are based and lots of other variables. It's very unclear what anyone is getting. It will also depend if you are considered as an FO or SFO. So it's roughly between 2000 to 2500 basic after tax and 2000 to 2500 sector pay after tax. So 4000 to 5000 euro after tax. But I'm sure there are some on less than this. Remember there's absolutely no benefits, like uniform, medical, loss of licence, pension or even drinking water. Hopefully things will improve, but there's better positions out there. The only advantage I can see for you is the ease at which you can convert your licence. But check this out by phone with the IAA first. You can find there numbers online. Have a look at the EZY website..........much better terms and conditions. All in black and white too...............not like FR.

Best of Luck in your search.

It's worth reading again :=

To Pilot Pete and anyone else who might be interested;
Part 7 of Ops Manual refers to IAA regulations, not CAP 371.
FDP is 30 mins before flight to 15 mins after. Rostered report time is -45 mins. (In reality, most of us check-in at STD -60 to ensure a complete and thorough brief. I think it's called 'proffesionalism', something FR management choose to ignore.)
FDP is up to 12 hours regardless of when you check in.
For Cabin Crew this figure is 14 hours.
FD may work for 6 consecutive days, if required, and all starts may be 'earlies'
CC may work for 7 consecutive days......
9 days leave will be allocated, at random, and almost always in single days throughout the year to ensure that realistic leave planning is impossible.
Days off will be replaced with leave days at the companie's whim, whenever it suits them so to do.
Morale is in the dumps but spirits and application to the job in hand are high!
Still want to join?

Just to correct a previous post.


Regarding SFO.

Ryanair have now made it official that there are no more SFO upgrades.

This will mean FO's can no longer expect an increase in basic salary, as stated before. Just another cost saving.

So now you start on a low salary and stay on a low salary.

Hi guys,

How have things changed since this was written - could some kind (brave?) soul bring us up to date?
What are the chances of being employed in FR if you're 39 on application?

Thanks
FT

Very slim, I'm afraid.

You're on the back of the drag curve at 39 I'm afraid, but it's not unknown for guys in there 40s to get hired. I've flown with one FO who must have been 45 when employed as a cadet. If you can pass the interview and sim check why not.

All I would say though at 39 and working for Ryanair is I hope you don't have any financial commitments (mortgage and wife + kids) because the BRK pay isn't consistent, good in the summer, meager in the winter. Plus you'll be probably be living out of a bag quite a lot.

Not to mention paying for your food and accommodations during training. However, there are those who still manage to break the 800 hour mark. As long as one has no great expectations from FR then one shall not be disappointed.

Under the Brookfield contract one is paid based on Scheduled Block Hours (SBH). Back in the day... the (SBH) were pretty fat. In other words, one could fly a SBH flight of 2:30 in 2:15... and you were credited with 2:30 hours for pay purposes. At the end of the month, one could have 100 hours on the log book, and have a pay credit of 110 hours.

That all changed in either late 2007 or early 2008. FR tightened their SBH. In fact the flight time was more than the SBH. With that being said, one would fly the same SBH of 2:30 in 2:45... and still credited with only 2:30 minutes for pay purposes. As you can see it becomes a losing proposition. Now with that being said, one can fly 100 hours in a month and be credited with only 90 hours for pay purposes. Hourly pay is not what it seems to be... or is it:*. Of course this was the experience from EGSS.

But at the end of the day... it was nice to have a 5/4 roster. Even flying out of base... the 20 Euro/hr was sufficient to meet hotel, transport, and meal expenses.

Hi guys,
Thanks - I do know I'm on the back of the drag curve, all the same it could probably be done.
It would be great if some knowledgeable person could update the main post and let us all know how the land is at Ryanair, warts and all. Cause theres people like me wanna be prepared for it!

Been offered a Brookfield contract. Mug.

I would say you'll hear the ground is laid to waste with sh1t and misery in Ryanair.

What do you want to hear? It's the path of milk and honey?

Just take the money, keep your head down and enjoy the flying, Ryanair is the future... for all of us, whoever we work for. :ouch:

I can only assume Lord A is having a laugh! I certainly hope so..

Keep your head down = do whatever the company wants no matter how unreasonable for however much they choose to pay you this month with no base / job security. To clarify.

@stansdead

I know its not. I've been shuffling around these forums looking at the darker side of life for a while.

Knowing that IF I were to take this enormous personal risk and end up offered BRK, then theres no shock horror when see -€4.50 for every block hr I fly etc.

So, to get back to my q, what has deteriorated since the main post was written?

Thanks,

Omar: Don't pick up your phone when you are off duty if you can't identify the number or see it's an Irish one. That's what practically any Brookfielder in my base does.

Had a conversation with a colleague yesterday which was interesting to me. He's originally from Brazil where he flew with Varig for 8 years as a FO. After they went bankrupt he came to Europe and joined Ryanair. Got the command within a year from joining.

What he told me was that he didn't get at all what Ryanair SFO's are complaining about. At the current rate any decent FO gets a shot at command after 3 years of service. In practice an FO could become a commander aged 25. By comparison, in the US you can be 40 years old and still be flying turboprops RHS. Another thing he pointed at was people complaing about basing. He claims that while working for Varig he was based a 4 hour flight away from home on a roster with no solid pattern.

Of course Varig had multiple benefits that Ryanair lacks but his general attitude was that the Ryanair package, whilst absolutely not a long term solution, is not that bad of a deal.

While I'm personally not the biggest fan of Ryanair, unlike some amongst you may think, I always try to look at the entire picture and treat everything on its' merits.

I believe he made a decent argument in saying that a lot has to do with perception and more importantly personal experience.

It's a pity PPruNe has no frontpage of some sort. I think this whole discussing calls for an objective comparison of Airline T&C's based on facts. A table with comparable values would help a great deal.

Now, some FO T&C figures up for discussion:

Brussels Airlines - Self-sponsored 737 Classic rating followed by a 9 month contract. Salary taxed progressively under Belgian legislation. Top shelf is 50%. No guarantees black on white for an extension of contract after those 9 months.

TUI Jetairfly - Self-sponsored 737 NG rating. 6 month contract. After probation period of 6 months board of directors may deny permanent contract. Sometimes company sponsors the type rating with a 3 year training bond of €3000 before tax. Take-home pay just under €2000. No fixed roster, only "Blanc" days which are in theory all standby days.

Thomas Cook - Company sponsored Airbus A320. 2 summer seasons contract. No Guarantee to any flight hours outside summer season. Basic pay €1500. No guarantees to any extension of contract after 2 years.

That's a quick run-down of contracts that I've seen personally.

edit: As always I'm up for a pleasant discussion. Posts with personal insults I will ignore with a smile :)

So true, I once answered and because I said no to work a day off (was at a wedding), I was given 5 standby days on my next duty week!! changed from a previous 4 days flying out of 5, so now I just don't answer on my days off, foreign number or with held. They only have themselves to blame.

Have the said airlines got recognition from a union, will T&C continue to fall.... I dont know maybe you can answer these questions? I know a bit about TC because some guys I know got the seasonal contract last year and now have a permanent contract which is far better in the long run than mine.... No wait I don't have a contract.... As I've been told it's just a GUIDELINE!

I try not to answer my phone but people not associated with flying call me and sometimes they have blocked numbers..... and funny when I refuse I get a bunch of standbys too. Feels great to work under bullied conditions but as I said it's a great place to get experience but not a great place to be long term. I hit 3 years had contracts (sorry guidelines) changed had holidays ruined etc so that's all I can take....

Omar: All airlines are companies head-quartered in Belgium and technically are required by law to recognize unions.

In practice however Belgian airlines often receive a waver to this requirement if they are able to provide proof that they run an adequate in-house body which represents the interests of their pilots.

What ends up happening is that these bodies usually consist of just a few management pilots or pilots with good standing within the company. They are thus far from independent or objective.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I thought some of you out there would be interested in a comment in an email that I received this morning from one of my old students who is now a trainer with Emirates:

We are actively looking to recruit ex-Ryanair and easyJet pilots.

Interesting.

They have obviously recognised talent.

As posted by JW411

Carriers in the Far East recognize FR's training too.

Without disrespect for Ryanair and easy-jet pilots , are you sure they are interested in their talent ?

Or are they happy to see pilots used to study by themselves , work hard with no union etc ... ?

I would say that most FR pilots would say due to talent.

Hold on there a minute Xerox25

MOL and along with the all the despots in the industry are not holding a gun to the head of the wannabee birdmen. They are well aware of how conditions have deteriorated within the industry over the years.

These despots are taking advantage of the situation... cheap labour. They cast their lines into the water and a sucker bites the tastes the bait and bites the hook:(.

Anyway... these prospective flyboys and flygals are educated people and old enough to make their decisions.

Step back for a minute and imagine a day when all pilots unite together as one and decide to call a sickout:):D. No sounds from the jet... no contrails in the heavens above... Just a bunch of Orwellians wandering aimlessly about the terminal bumping into one another. How do you think the shareholders, let alone those passengers would react:mad:? Well Xerox25, we have a better chance of watching the sun rising from the West and set in the East before pilots unite and take inventory in their importance and action against these despots:{.