757/767 based at Luton

Blighty old mate, as a new chap at Ltn I think you will almost certainly be 757 only, unless you have other information.

Blighty, you will also spend a lot of time on the motorway to LGW/MAN.:zzz:

What are the roster patterns like out of LGW on the Boeing?

Can anyone advise me what the bond agreement is like?:ok:

18,000 pounds over 3 years

Are any of these positions commutable?
Say, from GLA or EDI?
Would be very interested if they were. Quality of life for me is more important now.

Somebody earlier on mentioned that only the more experienced guys/girls would be considered for the A300.
What sort of experience would this be?
Say, 5000hrs + CRJ/RJ100/Bae 146/Emb 145??
Or would you need Boeing/Airbus/longhual experience?

All Info appreciated.:)

Monarch is a good company to work for. Yes, things are not what they used to be, but I think many airlines have changed in similar ways.

Scale C was a rushed and huge step, but it is being fought by BALPA and I believe they are making progress on improving it. Well done to them for their efforts. Things WILL change for the better.

Monarch is not a new airline but more of a traditional airline with traditional values. The people are great and the flying can be quite interesting. Monarch is expanding. Their Low Cost model seems to be working, and the charter is as you'd expect. With aircraft orders on the horizon and new scheduled routes being announced, it won't be a bad airline to work for.

If you've applied to Mon/ or are thinking about it, you've done so for a reason. Don't back out based on scale 'C'.

I say be yourself and go for it!! If you get through, you'l fly just 2 sectors a day, get a hat, and have the possiblity of flying long haul in the future.

Life isnt that bad on this side.:ok:

Thanks for the info C172's.

Is commuting do able?
Is the A300 a realistic option?
Where are the stop overs?

What are Balpa trying to change, is it back to the original
"B" Scale or a modified "C" Scale?
If so what parts of the "C" Scale would be modified?

Lots of questions I know but there is a lot to consider when jumping ship.

Many thanks.:cool:

A300 stopovers are BAH, BAH, BAH and the occasional Goa. Negotiations are ongoing on scale C. As it stands it is vastly inferior to A and B Scales and you will never go on A or B.

Smokie,
Commuting - you must be able to leave home within 30 mins of callout and then be able to report in the office within a further 1 1/2 hrs assuming normal traffic.
Bases for A300 - Man, Lgw there are a few positions left at Ltn but are being phased out.
Stopovers for A300 - Bah and occasional adhoc/A330 rescue flt
BALPA - Chances of Scale C being linked to Scale A, very slim primarily because pilots are accepting Scale C now in its present format. The MD has stated that market forces will drive Scale C, as long as pilots want to join on inferior terms to those already established for the workforce then that is exactly what he is going to get!
There is a thread somewhere detailing some of the major differences between the 2 scales.

I see the BALPA Web Site is showing the old T&C's for 2004, with todays date.
I'm sure I had seen the "New C Scale" there just recently.
Perhaps this indicative of a reversal?

Or is this just wishful thinking and I'm mistaken?

Any thoughts anyone??:confused:

I think we all need to wake up and get real about things changing for the better. Why on earth would they? The airlines that have been offering such poor packages have had no difficulty recruiting people. The standard has droppped accross the whole field, because people are willing to accept it. And who can blame them either - being a pilot is a dream turned reality for so many.

So to all those optimists, I think you're kidding yourself. The nature of flying has changed profoundly in recent years with the rise of the low cost model. Rather than the standards rising, for pilots, it makes more business sense to drop them. And that is what's happening at all airlines!

Well, not really. The hay day for the train driver has come and gone.

London underground pay their drivers a lot of money. In some cases more than pilots. But it is due to an absolute monopoly that the union can use to it's advantage. If there was only one airline allowed ,then we would have a similar scenario.

Wish it were different, believe me.

I hear that a holding pool is being formed, can any one confirm or deny? :confused:

Something to consider is that this massive expansion is the biggest in Monarchs' history. If it goes wrong, the company will contract again just as quickly and this years joiners will be out the door!

I understood that the numbers are required to replace people that have left. Don't know if there are many Airbuses that are due to arrive, but they are only getting 2 767's later this year.

I suppose they were counting on MYT to go down the pan and so taking on their people. As this is now not happening, thankfully, Monarch have had to recruit direct entry guys.

Smokie, news of a holding pool is news to me? Why do you ask? Are you about to go swimming in it.

Dont think they were hoping MYT were going bust as MON get a lot of sub-charters from MYT, so they would lose a lot of work.

When people say that the T&C's are reduced am i right in saying that means:

Starting Salary: £39000
No flight or duty pay.
No staff travel, medical, loss of licence, private health???????????

I am aware that the pension is matched contribution up to 8%.

Will Balpa get all these changes revoked or is it wishfull dreaming?????

Anyone in the know please give an accurate representation of the C scale.

PM me if necessary.

Many thanks

Joe

Capt: £64323 - £77362
F/O: £39000 - £45543

Pay review annually and pay rise annually in ten increments to top end of scale.

FDP: £2.38 per hour (out and back flight)
£2.86 per hour (if flight includes a nightstop)

32% of allowances is Taxable.

37 day leave (inc bank hols)

Licence fee renewals and medical - paid by company.

Car allowance when on company business away from base.

BUPA Medical Insurance

Insurance against Injury - Provided by company

Personal Effects Insurance - Provided by company

Loss of Licence - 2 x Scale C Basic salery

Company pension - Money purchase scheme - Company will match upto 8%.


I think that this is a good package and inline with what other airlines are offering.

I am as pleased as punch to be starting with Monarch in the near future.:ok:

Blighty Pilot, congratulations.
When do you start, when did you have your interview?
I take it you have been offered the 757?
Which base were you offered?

Nice One!:ok:

The exact start date is yet to be confirmed but it will be March/April.

I will be based at LTN on the 757. :D

Monarch
 

Blightey,

May i ask, when did you have the intervew? I had an interview recently and want to get an idea of how long they're taking to respond. Fingers crossed. Think they're considering me for 320/231.

Congratulations by the way

Ragga

Blighty Pilot,

I think these are dreadful terms and conditions. They are far worse than Britannia, Thomas Cook, First Choice and MyTravel.

They are your direct competitors as well as easyJet, and they pay more too.

Desperation has crept into this industry and it is fed by people like you propagating a myth that terms such as these are worth signing up for.:mad:

I just cannot believe how anyone can consider these good terms when you look at how much better off your colleagues in Monarch will be.

They will be laughing at you.

Wheelbarrow,

Don't expect to make money in this industry - you should know that by now... The industry has changed. True, the scale that Blighty highlighted was not the best, but it could be a lot worse. Flying more sectors per day for Ryanair or Easy for a little bit more would not be viewed as worth it by many pilots.

Should this scale be improved? Of course - hopefully soon. And when it is improved, he will be in a good position on the 757 out of Luton - not bad...

To those of you accepting Scale C now, and experiencing the thrill of a big jet job - beware. If you see Mon as a long term job, your future prospects are what you have in your contract now. To those of you considering it as a stepping stone, step quickly because other airlines will be noting what out of contract pilots are happy to accept, ie Mon Scale C, and their terms and conditions will soon reflect that standard. You yourself will be signing the contracts that will start the avalanche across the industry, you will only have yourselves to blame in the future!

I think the optimisum by some is misinformed, but wish you well none the less. The wool is being pulled over (y)our eyes though when the charter airlines are saying that in order to remain competetive they must match the lower cost base of the LCC.

Consider this. The majority of flights that the charter carriers are flying to are: Greece, Cyprus, Turkey, Egypt and the Canaries. Besides EZY's Athens flights they are not in any way in competition with them. The LCC model doesn't work for such long sector lengths. So, just know that you're being hoodwinked when you go to an airline that offers you inferior conditions on based on the above premis.

It is a difficult conundrum, but be real - it is naive to think things will improve much. Get into the carriers that still have their old terms and conditions while you can!

That being said, would you prefer to be paid a few thousand quid more for a crap QOL? This industry sux in general - nobody will ever make money - EVER.... I'm not saying wages shouldn't go up in the future, just that expectations of even "reasonable" wages nowadays with an acceptable QOL are not too realistic.

Get paid more at Easy but fly a lot more to really boring destinations (with the exception of some of the holiday spots that you would routinely fly to on the charter carriers)... The industry has changed for the WORSE when considering fair compensation and that must be recognized by those entering the business now...

Riker,

Which of Easy's destinations are more "boring" than those Monarch Scheduled fly to?

Anyone care to post the salary A & B terms and conditions, so the new joiners can make an accurate comparison?

For many of us Monarch has offered the base of our choice on a decent aircraft. Yes, EZY may pay a little better but to go from RHS to LHS there at the moment (and this includes Ryanair as well) you are likely not just to change base but country as well. Fine, if you are single but with family commitments your QOL takes a nose dive.

Remember, with EZY: no pay until base cx completed, you pay for your type rating, multi sector days with v. fast turn arounds, pay for your unform etc.....

It probably balances out in the end but I'll take a permanent contract and the security of a salary from day one to pay the mortgage.

Although it is not very evident yet, the number of pilots gaining frozen ATPL's is slowly reducing as many young people realise aviation is not the goldmine it used to be. In the next 5-8 years T&C's will probably have to improve again to stop UK pilots being lured to the Middle and Far East.

I understand how the currrent MON pilots feel and hope that they continue to push for comparable contracts but the fact is if you are flying 4-6 sectors per day earning 25k on a t'prop or RJ and an airline offers a £14k pay rise, more flight pay, similar pension, less sectors and a worthwhile type rating then it becomes a bit of a no-brainer. Once more and more pilots leave MON then things will change.

I hope the current pilots don't resent our decision to join. If you were in our shoes you would do exactly the same. Be thankful we are not low hours CTC cadets from overseas on even less money.

If an improved quality of life is your reason for joining, make sure that you don't ask to go to Manchester on the A320.

3 Canaries flights in a row, followed by 2 more days work, 5 earlies, and numerous roster changes are the order of the day.

QOL? LOL!
 

Forty flying hours in a week, 55+ duty hours in a week & 850 hours per year are all realities in the New Monarch. Do you like taxis and dead-heading? 24 hours + on duty can and does happen. Night flights finishing in one UK airport followed by a wait of some hours and then airline back are common practice. Operating UK ti India and then staying on the aircraft to dead-head back is a real treat for some. We do not have a scheduling agreement, as you will gather from the above. Join and I'll give you six months before you start moaning!

matzpenetration

anything wrong with CTC cadets from overseas ? Dont think they are happy to fly for less.
Let me remind you that there are quit a lot of ex-CTC cadets within Monarch, some up for command.

Or do you want to say : pay peanuts,get monkeys ?

All the best,
Rogi

matzpenetration
 

I think you and the pilot community have got to accept that the whole of the aviation community are on the slippery slope....

The days of glamorous stopovers, high class hotels and jobs for life are coming to an end at the big (flag) carriers and ARE over, if they ever existed, at the remaining.

Face it, with automation and increased reliabiltiy, safety and the 2 man flight deck , flying aint what it used to be and the airlines powers that be know it.

People are always going to want to fly for a living and will take whatevers offered, as they do now. However if they are still happy after 10 years in the job is a different matter.

If you are not happy , you know what the answer is.....:mad:

matzpenetration,

A & B Scales

F/O
41680-60363

CAPT
62754-93529

Package includes:-

PHI
BUPA
1 Yrs Sick Pay
F/O pay bridge (after six yrs)
Loss of Licence
Final salary pension

Don't expect that the union will be able to change your terms and conditions after you sign on the dotted line.

They won't.

Monarch's main competitors are Brits, Excel, thomson and air 2 bob , they are hiring and offer better t's and c's.

If you join, you will not fly the 767, you will be at the bottom of a very long list.

Put simply, the more people who join on C Scale, the harder it is for BALPA to help change C Scale and the more pressure is put on the A & B Scale Terms and Conditions. In years to come if you join on C Scale do not be deluded into thinking you will move up to A & B Scale terms and Conditions, at present this just will not happen as there is NO link. A & B Scales will be eroded towards C, not vice err versa.

Several posts have quoted A320's at MAN, hows life at LGW on A320s.

Also are you guys telling me that you fly all the way to Goa or Delhi and then just position back. Nice!!!!!!!!!!!

Rogi,

I have no issue with CTC cadets. Some are no doubt much better and some much worse than me as an operator. In my opinion schemes such as those at CTC, Ryanair, Bond aviation, EZY etc... do more to de-value this industry than people like myself entering on scale C as I understand that the starting salary is just above 30k for the cadets.

I am pleased that MON has chosen to have a mix of age, experience and background with its recruitment as some airlines place so much emphasis on these organisations that you sometimes wonder if you are a second class citizen by not choosing to pay for the course.

We have former CTC cadets in our airline who are in the LHS.

ATIS, regards your second point, it is not unknown!