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RYANAIR pilots, please share your thoughts/ experience

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RYANAIR pilots, please share your thoughts/ experience

Old 23rd Aug 2023, 10:08
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
Of course they can, that's why most of them are there in the first place.
​​​​​

I would sooner be here than joining a 🤡 like you at a dump
like Jet2. (Enough feedback from respected ex colleagues and a damning BALPA member feedback document allows me to comfortably arrive at that conclusion)

Some SUBSTANCE for the original poster :

Most DEFOs require 2 years to reach the standard for Command.

UK Captains - 122k fixed and about 8k flight pay
UK SFOs - 67k fixed and about 7-8k flight pay
Proper staff travel (that you can actually use) 6 confirmed , unlimited standby , unlimited jumpseat.
SFIs - circa 100k
LTCs About 140ish all in
TREs and BCs(depending on base size) 168 - 175 plus

5-4 for line guys and weekends off for other roles.
You can refuse discretion till your little heart bleeds- nothing happens.

Commands are done on ability and merit, not based on who your mate is and what type of fast jet you may have flown- same applies to training roles. If you reach the standard you will pass. If you don’t you will fail and be provided with feedback as to where you went wrong, and what you need to work on. You will then go under the umbrella of one of the best, if not the best training departments in aviation.

It’s not perfect and it could be better, but unionisation has brought it on leaps and bounds.
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 11:02
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Originally Posted by antonov09
​​​​​

I would sooner be here than joining a 🤡 like you at a dump
like Jet2. (Enough feedback from respected ex colleagues and a damning BALPA member feedback document allows me to comfortably arrive at that conclusion)

Some SUBSTANCE for the original poster :

Most DEFOs require 2 years to reach the standard for Command.

UK Captains - 122k fixed and about 8k flight pay
UK SFOs - 67k fixed and about 7-8k flight pay
Proper staff travel (that you can actually use) 6 confirmed , unlimited standby , unlimited jumpseat.
SFIs - circa 100k
LTCs About 140ish all in
TREs and BCs(depending on base size) 168 - 175 plus

5-4 for line guys and weekends off for other roles.
You can refuse discretion till your little heart bleeds- nothing happens.

Commands are done on ability and merit, not based on who your mate is and what type of fast jet you may have flown- same applies to training roles. If you reach the standard you will pass. If you don’t you will fail and be provided with feedback as to where you went wrong, and what you need to work on. You will then go under the umbrella of one of the best, if not the best training departments in aviation.

It’s not perfect and it could be better, but unionisation has brought it on leaps and bounds.
Sorry there’s no such thing as ‘SFO’ in RYR so I assume you mean FO, anyway neither that’s here nor there, how did arrive at a figure of 67K fixed for this rank??? What breakdown are you using? If you’re including the allowance of pension in fixed pay (like RYR do) then let’s get real here shall we.

LTCs are leaving to go to J2 and take a pay INCREASE as normal like skippers flying near half the amount and dealing with far less crap than used to.

As for your TRE/BC scale, again, way off. Not even close actually.
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 11:16
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FO then-
56500
5000 allowance
dual licence - 5000 (majority have)
makes 67500 fixed
700 hours at 10.19
roughly
73500 (EXCLUDING pension)

If you dont think BCs and TREs are 168 plus gross then clearly you arn’t either and a sciolist in it’s highest form.

Just for the avoidance of doubt? Are you a BC or TRE?
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 11:20
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Originally Posted by antonov09
​​​​​

I would sooner be here than joining a 🤡 like you at a dump
like Jet2. (Enough feedback from respected ex colleagues and a damning BALPA member feedback document allows me to comfortably arrive at that conclusion)
.
I'm happy for you to stay there.

At least all the ex Ryanair pilots and trainers who have joined Jet2 recently don't seem to be bellends.
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 12:27
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ser
Ex-Ryanair skipper here who left the company in the past year.

The company has many issues and it's not for everyone, but most of the second-hand accounts you hear are bull****.

Discretion is not a problem, I have refused discretion before with no consequences, as have other captains at my base. Ops won't be happy about it, but you won't be brought in for disciplinary action.

Same for sickness and fatigue, I think I called in sick between 2-14 days per year over my time at Ryanair and I was only called once for a welfare check and to remind me to file sick paperwork that I had forgotten.

FTL numbers are not adjusted purposely, if significant delays are foreseen, say the aircraft you were supposed to take went tech down route, they will delay your report time. The system is mostly automatic with electronic flight plans and journey logs, occasionally, submitting the electronic paperwork can adjust the recorded times as they overwrite the manually adjusted times by ops. A call to crew control fixes this.

The company has cleaned up its act over the years as it's grown and is a massive operation and when things go wrong there are never enough ops controllers to deal with the fallout.

In response to OP's question:

- Salary is very dependent on base, post-unionisation and AOC split each country has its own payscale, contracts etc. I believe the Italians have the best contracts due to Italian tax law. The Polish/eastern Europeans are all self-employed with high net pay but no direct employment protections etc etc.

- The kind of flying is also very base dependent, the Italian bases mostly run like regional airline rosters with lots of domestic flights, mostly 4 sector days. The big bases have the largest variety of flying but also standby's there cover other bases also. The smaller bases you'll fly with the same faces every day though less variation in routes.

- Command upgrades are generally at 3k hours/900 in the company (don't quote me on the second part) I believe, you'll be pressured into it if they think you're ready. Though if you're in one of the niche positions where they have issues with FO cover, such as Ryanair UK at the moment, they'll delay as much as they think they can.

- Base transfer is based on seniority/date of application. You can apply for a base transfer and you'll be bottom of the queue, though once a year it refreshes in order of seniority. Their favourite line is "base allocation is not base transfer" so you may find new hires and upgrades getting to your base ahead of you.

- Ops, the pilots and cabin crew you work with will be fantastic, you get the occasional oddball, like every airline. Management on the other hand varies from incompetent to toxic, and if you ever have the displeasure of dealing with them, you'll understand why so many eventually leave.

- The training is stellar and can fault nothing in the training department, it's a well-oiled machine and probably the largest ATO in Europe. There are far far more SOPs than most airlines, and they want everything done in their specific ways, at least during line checks and SIMs. On the line if something goes wrong and you weren't following SOPs, say flying a visual or circling in your preferred method, you take the blame.

- Management view you as a resource to be used efficiently and a cost to be minimised instead of an asset. Expect to fly up to 900 hours a year, if a duty is legal, expect to operate it. If and when the tide turns on pilots supply and demand, expect them to cut Ts and Cs as they did during COVID. The business is run ruthlessly, which is great for investors and **** for employees. We were the last to get pay rises and the first to see pay cuts in comparison to our colleagues at other airlines.

That all being said, it's what works for you, if you're Italian, Polish or Spanish, Ryanair is probably the best-paying employer if you want to live at a regional base in your country and be home every night. It's a great airline for the beginning of your career as it exposes you to a variety of operations and situations, the training is great and if you can handle it for 6 years, you'll be a skipper with five thousand hours bond free. In my experience, most OCC captains don't last more than 2 years before they leave, FOs generally hang around longer. There's a reason they're casting a wide net and doing roadshows in South America and Africa.

Think about what it is you want, if it's to live at home or at a specific city or a fast command and PIC hours, Ryanair is the right place for you.

Edit: I just noticed you're in the Southern Hemisphere, most of the OCC Brazilians/Ecuadorians I've flown with love it here compared to their previous job at Copa. So if you're there, it's not a bad transition! If you can squeeze a Spanish/Portuguese base out of Ryanair, I think you won't regret the move.

This is pretty much spot on. Only thing I would add is you have to pay for all medicals, uniform, hotels at sims loss of licence etc. So the money may look very good and it is but it comes out of your net pay when accounting for these costs.
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 14:13
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Originally Posted by antonov09
FO then-
56500
5000 allowance
dual licence - 5000 (majority have)
makes 67500 fixed
700 hours at 10.19
roughly
73500 (EXCLUDING pension)

If you dont think BCs and TREs are 168 plus gross then clearly you arn’t either and a sciolist in it’s highest form.

Just for the avoidance of doubt? Are you a BC or TRE?
so you do include the ‘allowance’ an ‘allowance’ that’s taxed and you pay for everything with out of your NET hmmm…. Stop including an allowance in your calculations, it’s silly. Fair enough if you didn’t have to pay for uniform, parking, hotels, Medicals, license fee’s, ID’s….I won’t go on.

Dual licence is a load of bull. Extra money? Yeah great but nothing comes at a cost in Ryanair. I know people who’ve already been told go RUK or lose their current base, all since they’ve fessed up about their UK licence.

For the avoidance of your doubt, no, I’m not a BC or TRE but I must tell mates who are that they’re earning considerable more than others in the same role…in smaller bases most likely.

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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 15:58
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My figures were accurate because they are written on the £&@£()n CLA that 80 odd percent voted in. You are full of the proverbial brown and clearly a sciolist when its comes to the BC/TRE side of it.

BCs in different bases are all paid a different allowance depending on base size.
Staff TRE and Base TRE fixed pay elements are all the same. The variable is the difference between flight pay and sim pay.

All FOs in two bases I know of that are dual licence holders are guess what ?
Shock and horror- going absolutely nowhere.

If you don’t like the facts - that’s your problem. Go and give yourself that warm fuzzy feeling and tell your mates to check the CLA- then go find a high stool and put the Disney channel on.

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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 17:17
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Originally Posted by antonov09
My figures were accurate because they are written on the £&@£()n CLA that 80 odd percent voted in. You are full of the proverbial brown and clearly a sciolist when its comes to the BC/TRE side of it.

BCs in different bases are all paid a different allowance depending on base size.
Staff TRE and Base TRE fixed pay elements are all the same. The variable is the difference between flight pay and sim pay.

All FOs in two bases I know of that are dual licence holders are guess what ?
Shock and horror- going absolutely nowhere.

If you don’t like the facts - that’s your problem. Go and give yourself that warm fuzzy feeling and tell your mates to check the CLA- then go find a high stool and put the Disney channel on.
still ignoring the fact you include a taxed ‘allowance’ as an ‘earning’…?

All dual licensed FO’s in two bases going nowhere? Are you sure you’re based in the UK?

A FO ok the highest rate at RYR earns £73K (excluding allowance) flying 850 hours. A FO (NOT EVEN A SFO) at J2 earns more than this even if they flew 0 hours that year…
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 17:41
  #29 (permalink)  
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Seems like there's a lot of different pay scales and/or contracts.

Can you say - divide and conquer.
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 18:16
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Originally Posted by Moonraker4
still ignoring the fact you include a taxed ‘allowance’ as an ‘earning’…?

All dual licensed FO’s in two bases going nowhere? Are you sure you’re based in the UK?

A FO ok the highest rate at RYR earns £73K (excluding allowance) flying 850 hours. A FO (NOT EVEN A SFO) at J2 earns more than this even if they flew 0 hours that year…
Yes I am uk based - a lot longer than you I would bet too.
Where did I state earnings?
I quoted taxable fixed pay elements as per the CLA for info purposes for the original poster. Is it really that hard for you to see that ?
And you are at the third stage at BA (not jet2 I note). How did you get past the capacity test ? You seem to be struggling here massively.
BA being one of the three airlines coincidently that I advise FOs to go to if their mind is absolutely made up to leave.
Genuinely- best of luck in the sim- I have extended family members there and they love it. If you don’t make it for heavens sake dont join Jet2 !



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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 18:17
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Originally Posted by RenanZ


by the way, so far I know, would be Raynair DAC contract with UK basement, still no idea which airport
Bear in mind the process is likely to give you an EASA ATPL based on your national licence until you have completed the 14 ATPL exams.

This does not however give you the right to live/work in the EU as believe RYR only sponsor a UK visa. Ultimately this means you are likely stuck at RYR as I am not aware of any other UK carrier that accepts an EASA ticket. Happy to be corrected
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 20:57
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Just a small ditty that might be useful for our thread starter.

I get contacted by a UK biz jet mate who I hadn't seen or heard from for years asking about joining Ryanair and all the usual questions.

I say why now (roster mainly) and he says he was renewing his Class 1 medical and mentioned in the usual AME chit chat he was toying with the idea of Ryanair. The AME to his surprise says the happiest / most content (can't remember the exact words he used) pilots he sees in his office are the Ryanair pilots.

What can I say, to add my bit, moneys ok, roster excellent, grief factor minimal, take as much fuel as I want. Yes I want more time off and more money who doesn't but its what you sacrifice to get it. If your a FO Ryanair is an FOs airline, low gradient, positive approach to training and checking, encouraged to engage and speak up, great first start or command in quick time subject to experience and command course not designed for astronauts unlike some places I hear about.

Hope that helps.

SMN


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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 21:48
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Hi chaps,

Thanks to RenanZ for starting the thread, currently I find myself in the position of doing the paperwork to join the company. I attended one of the SA road shows and alas, was selected for the assessment and passed. Due to visa and other requirements, I am looking for another 30 days to be ready to give the final word to them so they can organise courses etc. Progression in my current gig is stalled and local conditions (politics/economy) aren't looking bright either, hence the decision to leave.

During my assessment, I was asked to select the bases, and my last option was STN and EDI was the first. Realistically, what are my chances to get the EDI base right from the start? What are the most sought-after bases in the UK?

Another thing that I forgot to ask during the assessment was if they have reserve duty, i.e., you stay at the airport fully dressed ready to go, or only home standby. Also, in general, how many stand-by/reserve days do you have on an usual roster?

Great discussion

Cheers
BF

PS. What do you mean by dual licence? UK CAA and EASA?
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 21:54
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Originally Posted by antonov09
​​​​​

I would sooner be here than joining a 🤡 like you at a dump
like Jet2. (Enough feedback from respected ex colleagues and a damning BALPA member feedback document allows me to comfortably arrive at that conclusion)

Some SUBSTANCE for the original poster :

Most DEFOs require 2 years to reach the standard for Command.

UK Captains - 122k fixed and about 8k flight pay
UK SFOs - 67k fixed and about 7-8k flight pay
Proper staff travel (that you can actually use) 6 confirmed , unlimited standby , unlimited jumpseat.
SFIs - circa 100k
LTCs About 140ish all in
TREs and BCs(depending on base size) 168 - 175 plus

5-4 for line guys and weekends off for other roles.
You can refuse discretion till your little heart bleeds- nothing happens.

Commands are done on ability and merit, not based on who your mate is and what type of fast jet you may have flown- same applies to training roles. If you reach the standard you will pass. If you don’t you will fail and be provided with feedback as to where you went wrong, and what you need to work on. You will then go under the umbrella of one of the best, if not the best training departments in aviation.

It’s not perfect and it could be better, but unionisation has brought it on leaps and bounds.
A regular line Captain in Jet2 this year will earn nearly as much as a Ryanair TRE and work 50% less... about 160k... i know which one sounds like a dump to me
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 22:04
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No airport standby for pilots, only cabin crew
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Old 23rd Aug 2023, 23:49
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It’s not all about the money if it was there would be nobody working in the UK.

For me stable roster, 5\4, prefer short sectors, maybe odd but don’t mind 4 shortish ones, can’t stand endless Canaries flights bored by bottom of France so Jet2 would be out for me.

In fairness Jet2 are doing us all in FR a favour. I’m sure my £11k pay rise coming in this month is down to them in part.

I’m looking at the overall package, including the roster not just the dosh. But then again maybe I’m at the wrong end of the age curve to be purely cash driven.

SMN
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Old 24th Aug 2023, 11:18
  #37 (permalink)  
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Ok, a lot of strong opinions coming around.

about the package, what I can take from your inputs are essentially this:


best - 5/4 Roster
good - Capt upgrade
average - Salary
bad - Capt’s Discretion (what’s even that?)
worst - Management



based on this, is it Worth It?
I mean, like said before, not just changing badges, would be a life change…..
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Old 24th Aug 2023, 11:26
  #38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AlsWings
Bear in mind the process is likely to give you an EASA ATPL based on your national licence until you have completed the 14 ATPL exams.

This does not however give you the right to live/work in the EU as believe RYR only sponsor a UK visa. Ultimately this means you are likely stuck at RYR as I am not aware of any other UK carrier that accepts an EASA ticket. Happy to be corrected

yeah, UK visa only for now

but I’ve been working on my EU citizenship (Italian ancestries) for the past 10 years, so I believe when it comes out, I would have more options by having the right to live and work, the EASA license and the job (if everything goes right along the way)
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Old 24th Aug 2023, 12:11
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Dont have any skin in this game, but lets face it the CLA for Ryanair and Jet2's Lifestyle options are very much in the public domain. If you don't have them here they are.
Lets see how long it takes before this post gets removed
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Old 24th Aug 2023, 16:37
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I'm ex Ryanair, cadet to captain, left quite a while ago before the unions got in. Horrible company to work for, I can't speak for how it is now but back then you went to dublin for tea and biscuits if you didn't use discretion. They used to tell us that it was impossible to be fatigued, something about nasa scientists analysing Ryanair rosters or some BS. There was no base transfer lists and they used to not give people their preferences on purpose, to have a carrot to dangle and try to stop unionisation, which they were successful at for around 30 years before it finally happened. I could go on and on.

That they literally broke the airline up into 5 or 6 different AOC's to limit the effectiveness of the unions tell you everything you need to know. As I said I left a long time ago so while things might be slightly better than when I was there, it's still the same bunch of oppressive snakes running the organisation.

I suspect the posters who are defending the company probably joined as cadets and never left and are convincing themselves it isn't that bad. Well it is that bad, there are far better employers and jobs out there.

Ryanair is fine as a stepping stone, particularly for cadets or people who are coming for an EU visa. As a long term career its a pile of ****.
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