BA Euroflyer

[JStone]

Hi

Does anyone know what the BA Euroflyer selection process entails?

Is it the same as BA mainline?

Thanks

[BAreject]

Same torturous experience - only to end up on £15k less than your colleagues up the road on the Golden Runways - if you're successful, that is. You could eventually find yourself up at Heathrow by choice after a few years and ultimately you're a British Airways pilot hence the same assessment process.

That said, you'll be assessed by EF staff and they're an extremely friendly bunch, so the experience will be slightly more palatable.

Good luck. I Think there's been some subtle changes to the process but somebody who's been through it recently will hopefully post the details.

[Busdriver01]

Originally Posted by A320LGW

Would anyone advise leaving ryanair to join euroflyer? I feel safe where I am right now and just starting to really spread my wings at FR. The potential prize is also not LHR so not really 'BA'. It is however the BA seniority list and ultimately my main airline was always BA. How quick would be able to join BA up the road? I feel I shouldn't let the chance slip by It'll also involve switching from B to A which is another pain having invested so much time (and money) getting to grips with the Boeing philosophy

- Do you want to lose 5/4?
- Do you care about flying/having the opportunity to fly long haul?
- Do you mind commuting to Heathrow eventually?

If no to the above, stay where you are. You'll be 4-5 years on the list for Heathrow behind almost all others there. One would imagine you're close to a command at FR, so that wont come any sooner at EF. The money isn't as good at FR, I don't believe.

However, if you want to try long haul, or euro tours, or just want to wear a hat, then have at it. I joke about the last bit, but the first two are valid reasons to join and the sooner you do it the better your life becomes in terms of building some seniority. Just be aware the work life balance is not as good as 5/4 will achieve until you're top c.10% on your fleet/seat.

Good luck!

[VariablePitchP]

Originally Posted by A320LGW

I'm actually a lot less experienced than you presume. I'm still <500hrs so quite inexperienced and still getting to grips with things. It has been a monumental effort up until this point with the rating and line training etc. This is what's making me think very hard about throwing it all away to go to EF when it's not even really BA. Right as I'm getting a good grounding in the 73.
The 5/4 is handy but I can work around it.
I do want to fly long haul
i don't mind commuting to LHR (though I haven't tried it so that's a guess)
I am still in my mid 20s .. so I'm thinking its a good time to join the MSL. I'm just having a hard time justifying throwing away all I've worked for so far in FR and what is perhaps the safest job in the industry (whilst I'm still vulnerable, because nobody will be interested in me with my hours if things go belly up whilst swapping companies)

Join BA. Had you said you were 42, kids, 2500 hours and getting ready for command I’d have said no.

Seems a no brainer where you are. So what if it takes you 5/6 years to get to the 787/350, you’re now only early 30s..! Of your 40 year career, you’ll have done 39 at BA and 1 at Ryanair, that’s hardly leaving it too late. They all talk about seniority, you seem to be in a position to get to the top from where you are.

Training? Meh, you’ve got one type rating, that’s the hard bit. The 320 is a video game, super easy to fly, wouldn’t even consider that as a factor to be honest.

[ToCatLady]

What are the EF terms for FO? Rumour has it they’re getting absolutely nobody turning up except Wizz crews and the odd EZY.

is it that bad?

[White Van Driver]

Look up the "sunk cost fallacy" - don't stay where you are because of what you've invested into it. Take the best option looking forward.

As others have said - 5/4 is great and you may well miss it. But as you are young (and without family yet?) then joining the BA MSL now is a good choice, as you can do your most junior years while you are more flexible.
Long Haul is something you're never going to get with FR. Nor is crew catering, aircraft variety, night stops etc. But I understand FR pays much more than BA, certainly in the first decade which is where it matters most.
The work of another type rating wouldn't bother me... but I would personally like to get 1000hrs in any type to feel like I understand it. Having said that, if you are just applying now, it could well be many months to go through the selection process and get your EF start date, so you may feel like you've done your time by then.

good luck with your decision. For reference, I joined BA (straight onto LH) just when people would have told me not to bother - I was a very well paid SH captain, ~40yo, wife+kids to support. But LH had always been my dream, and though a big drop in pay, i still live the same lifestyle as I've always been pretty frugal 😆 I'm very happy with my decision - and if I wasn't then I'd reverse it.

[Alrosa]

I think others have already offered you very good advice I’d just add this : you might want to factor in the possibility of BA deciding to charge successful candidates up front for an Airbus TR in any future campaigns.

(I’m not aware of any plans for them to do so, but the way things are going it wouldn’t be a huge surprise !)

[thetimesreader84]

Just be aware that traditionally LGW - LHR moves have been "subject to the needs of the service BA". People who have had valid, accepted bids onto LHR fleets have had them delayed and even cancelled as their position at Gatwick couldn't be "backfilled". I believe the same is true of EF, although I haven't checked the scheduling agreement so can't say for certain.

I'd check that contract carefully if I were you. Traditionally Gatwick was the hidden gem at BA, probably because it was practically ignored by waterside - a double edged sword as we saw in 2020.

[DS1]

Originally Posted by A320LGW

Would anyone advise leaving ryanair to join euroflyer? I feel safe where I am right now and just starting to really spread my wings at FR. The potential prize is also not LHR so not really 'BA'. It is however the BA seniority list and ultimately my main airline was always BA. How quickly would one be able to move up the road? I feel I shouldn't let the chance slip by but also not sure if I should jump off the ship I'm currently on.
It'll also involve switching from B to A which is another pain having invested so much time (and money) getting to grips with the Boeing philosophy​​​​​​​

You would probably be frozen for 5 years before moving to LHR. But aviation is fluid and 5 years is just a guide line.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Originally Posted by A320LGW

I'm actually a lot less experienced than you presume. I'm still <500hrs so quite inexperienced and still getting to grips with things. It has been a monumental effort up until this point with the rating and line training etc. This is what's making me think very hard about throwing it all away to go to EF when it's not even really BA. Right as I'm getting a good grounding in the 73.
The 5/4 is handy but I can work around it.
I do want to fly long haul
i don't mind commuting to LHR (though I haven't tried it so that's a guess)
I am still in my mid 20s .. so I'm thinking its a good time to join the MSL. I'm just having a hard time justifying throwing away all I've worked for so far in FR and what is perhaps the safest job in the industry (whilst I'm still vulnerable, because nobody will be interested in me with my hours if things go belly up whilst swapping companies)

You should definitely consider BA.

I know loads of guys at BA from all ages. Some even joined late 40s. If you’re from SE from all the info IMO it’s the best gig.
You have options. SH LH. Opportunity to go part time, adjust your roster etc. I’m with Blue and yellow and honestly they have messed up big time.
Ok you can get fast command but wake up people. The pay is not amazing for Captain.
RYR First year Captain £91500. Second year £98250.
Then £105k. Ok so I haven’t added sector etc.
RYR say Captains earn £136k but:

Allowance £6k
Annual Leave £3kish
Sector pay 850 hrs £14kish
Pension £8k.

These figures are added on top of basic.

Don’t forget out of this you have to pay LOL, Uniform, Company IDs, CAA/IAA fees etc etc Food, tea, coffee, ok we get free water now. Well done what an achievement.

Make contacts with guys/gals in BA. Ask them directly. I was always skeptical but starting adding it all together and it is a very good option. Small things add up.
RYR 5 on 4 off is the only good thing. From comparing rosters yes RYR actually have more days off over the year but man when you’re working 12 hr duties are pretty standard.

As White Van said: Look forward,10 years minimum!!!

[White Van Driver]

interesting numbers Aiminghigh, I've not actually seen the reality at FR.
For reference so the OP can compare, in BA to equal that FR Y3 Capt package (142k including pension and all allowances/flight pay etc) you are around 10 years in the company and a junior Airbus captain.

Again, best of luck with your decision - weigh it all up, realise that you can't know everything, and try not to get mentally caught in golden handcuffs! 😉

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Exactly WVD.

Captains say to me take home is around £6k-£6.5k.

The BA pension is very good. I don’t know any company that actually adds it into your earnings except RYR.

Even as FO at BA I know guys who haven’t been far off Captain salary, that is at LHR. Ok not consistently throughout the year and they did overtime for it but they showed me you get the right trip on SH at overtime rate and man you can get some serious ££££.

Like you said money isn’t everything. Having options in this career keeps it interesting. IMO.

[VariablePitchP]

Originally Posted by A320LGW

Thanks for the advice. I've actually got 2 type ratings. I flew a prop before covid, lost that job and joined FR earlier this year. It will mean ive spent 30k on a type rating that i'll have nothing to show for because EF have called me for having 100 sectors on the prop, they didn't know anything about the 73, so I can't even say at least it got me into BA. Something about spending 30k to then walk away from it with nothing to show is making it very hard to stomach 🫣

Just to add to what others have added, forget the 30K this second.

You could have spent 500 million, utterly meaningless. The money is gone, it’s totally irrelevant.

The only question now is, if you had both job offers in front of you, which would you now take? If FR, stay, valid outcome. If BA, go.

[clvf88]

A320LGW - remember 'continuation bias' from Human Factors...

I fully understand the mentality of where you are coming from, but if I was you I'd be off to EF. Better sooner rather than later.

[de fumo in flammam]

Originally Posted by clvf88

A320LGW - remember 'continuation bias' from Human Factors...

That's a new one on me - but the "sunk cost fallacy" seems fitting.

[Vulka]

Hi all..

chancing the subject...
BA Euroflyer OR Vueling seem to be the recipients of the new B737 Max(del. from 2023)in order by IAG

any news?
thks

[MaydayMaydayMayday]

Originally Posted by Busdriver01

- Just be aware the work life balance is not as good as 5/4 will achieve until you're top c.10% on your fleet/seat.

To expand, top 10% in the right seat on the 320 at Heathrow is currently at about pay point 9. Top 10% in the right seat on the 777 is something more like pay point 20 (perhaps higher). Captain I flew with the other day on the 320 is about 50% on that list at pay point 17, and still a couple of years off a long haul command. The most junior long haul captains are still around pay point 20. Part time is the only way for them to avoid an absolute shafting every month.

Anyone joining as a long haul FO is going to be junior for a very long time. Relative seniority moves much quicker on short haul, and when you do eventually go long haul you’ll jump over any DEPs who joined on that fleet after your start date. Ultimately, if you want to join BA then the sooner the better. As recruitment either stagnates or accelerates, a few months’ difference in start date can mean years of difference in getting a particular fleet/seat.

[CXKA]

Originally Posted by jackiemkfok

Very much in the same position as you, I am totally with you on leaving with more or less 500hrs feels like wasting the TR with immense learning opportunities on RHS still to come, and the guys in the deck have a different vibe comparing to legacy . Have sent you a dm.

Am not sure what vibe you are talking about but you dont get many leave legacy for LCC, the vibe on LH fleet at mainline is very good, cant comment on SH though.

[ToCatLady]

Originally Posted by jackiemkfok

Very much in the same position as you, I am totally with you on leaving with more or less 500hrs feels like wasting the TR with immense learning opportunities on RHS still to come, and the guys in the deck have a different vibe comparing to legacy . Have sent you a dm.

if you’re in the same position as the poster, then how on earth do you know what the “Vibe” is like at a Legacy?

[Vokes55]

Originally Posted by ToCatLady

if you’re in the same position as the poster, then how on earth do you know what the “Vibe” is like at a Legacy?

Most likely from Ryanair captains that also have no idea what the "vibe" is like at a legacy. I'd imagine the same people that say don't do long haul, because jetlag from four trips a month is far worse than getting up at 3:30am five days a week - having never done long haul.

To be honest, if you're in your mid-20s on low hours and making your career choices based on perceived "vibe", you're better off staying in Ryanair.