British Airways Direct Entry Pilot
On the above 2 posts, subsidiary pilots are already on the MSL, this happened with the creation of Euroflyer - Fact. Scope has already been scrapped at LCY. Aircraft can now fly over 100+ seats as long as over 50% of the flights depart LCY - Fact. The rest regarding BACF I understand to be a complete rumour, so I am glad this is a rumour website lol. Don't expect any change any time soon.
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On the above 2 posts, subsidiary pilots are already on the MSL, this happened with the creation of Euroflyer - Fact. Scope has already been scrapped at LCY. Aircraft can now fly over 100+ seats as long as over 50% of the flights depart LCY - Fact. The rest regarding BACF I understand to be a complete rumour, so I am glad this is a rumour website lol. Don't expect any change any time soon.
This cityflyer rumour has been doing the rounds for years already.
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A few senior pals in City Flyer have started talking A380/350 flight sim add on packages to practice handling and crossing procedures. The consensus seems to be they wouldn’t need to or even consider the 777/787 due to how senior they’d be.
I said I thought they would at best get the Pay point but fleet wise just get what’s going i.e short haul Heathrow to appease all. How did it work when BMI merged?
I said I thought they would at best get the Pay point but fleet wise just get what’s going i.e short haul Heathrow to appease all. How did it work when BMI merged?
The consensus seems to be they wouldn’t need to or even consider the 777/787 due to how senior
place to be. That, and the fact that it does a lot of low credit East Coast flying at the moment. I suspect the 787 is currently the senior fleet
Not that any BACF is going to have to worry about that.
A few senior pals in City Flyer have started talking A380/350 flight sim add on packages to practice handling and crossing procedures. The consensus seems to be they wouldn’t need to or even consider the 777/787 due to how senior they’d be.
I said I thought they would at best get the Pay point but fleet wise just get what’s going i.e short haul Heathrow to appease all. How did it work when BMI merged?
I said I thought they would at best get the Pay point but fleet wise just get what’s going i.e short haul Heathrow to appease all. How did it work when BMI merged?
Last edited by Confusious; 8th Jan 2023 at 11:03.
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I have seen some excellent ex-colleagues join Big Airways over the last 30 years - and I have seen others pass selection who were (to put it politely) not a loss to their previous employer!
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JSW, I used the word subsidiary simply because BACF is a BA subsidiary and the scope agreement applies to BA subsidiaries. I wasn’t suggesting there aren’t any BA subsidiaries flying greater than 100 seat capacity aircraft.
I’m enjoying the sim prep banter. Comedy gold.
I’m enjoying the sim prep banter. Comedy gold.
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Now that's a coincidence because I've heard a similar rumour. Apparently, Transair has sold out of Embraer 190 Flight Sim add on packages after seeing a huge demand from BA long haul Senior First Officers getting a heads up on the challenges of steep approaches prior to their command courses.
You've just discredited the whole BA selection process in one sentence. All the hoops are put in place to ensure that they only get the crème de la crème and not the cast-offs that inferior airlines are delighted to pass onto them (to put it politely).
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Actually the 380 was the junior fleet this year, after the way the 747 pilots were handled during covid it is not considered a safe
place to be. That, and the fact that it does a lot of low credit East Coast flying at the moment. I suspect the 787 is currently the senior fleet
Not that any BACF is going to have to worry about that.
place to be. That, and the fact that it does a lot of low credit East Coast flying at the moment. I suspect the 787 is currently the senior fleet
Not that any BACF is going to have to worry about that.
I ask as if BA merged an airline every 10 years you could effectively go backwards on a seniority list for decades, hence why I ask how it was done when BMI integrated.
Hypothetically speaking if someone joined BA fairly recently say<10 years, would they be more junior than a city flyer pilot with >10 years on the master seniority list?
I ask as if BA merged an airline every 10 years you could effectively go backwards on a seniority list for decades, hence why I ask how it was done when BMI integrated.
I ask as if BA merged an airline every 10 years you could effectively go backwards on a seniority list for decades, hence why I ask how it was done when BMI integrated.
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The chance of BACF length of service giving equivalent ‘slotted in’ seniority for the purposes of fleet moves, at any point in the future is NIL. (Hopefully that is clear enough). As for it happening with any future merger with another company? It didn’t happen when Cityflyer merged back in the early 2000s, and it didn’t happen with the BMI merger - but it depends what is negotiated at the time. The only thing that did happen with BMI, was an agreement giving limited grandfather rights for a small number of long haul commands each year, on the most junior long haul fleet. This was a reflection of BMI’s limited number of long haul hulls pre-merger (but that won’t apply to BACF anyway). Once on that most junior long haul fleet, they remain at the bottom of the seniority until a more junior BA pilot gets their command on the fleet (which I think probably means - until they retire).
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Joining the BA master seniority list does not mean merging with it. These days, during company mergers (something which I highly doubt is on the cards with BACF), the law requires that as far as possible, no worker in either company is unfairly disadvantaged. BACF pilots obtaining long haul command positions ahead of current BA pilots would be a massive disadvantage to the BA pilots and a massive advantage to BACF pilots, and so it just isn’t going to happen. The law would not allow it.
Joining the BA master seniority list does not mean merging with it. These days, during company mergers (something which I highly doubt is on the cards with BACF), the law requires that as far as possible, no worker in either company is unfairly disadvantaged. BACF pilots obtaining long haul command positions ahead of current BA pilots would be a massive disadvantage to the BA pilots and a massive advantage to BACF pilots, and so it just isn’t going to happen. The law would not allow it.
Other than TUPE my knowledge of employment protection associated with mergers is limited. Are you able to post a link to the legislation that would cover seniority based advantages?
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The apparent rumour is not even suggesting a merger so continuously asking questions as if it is, is just scaremongering, but yes as I have already said, in a merger scenario I would expect the other company’s pilots to be protected too.
Anyway, let's just see what unfolds during the forthcoming months. In the meantime happy and safe flying to you all!
Ohh, and apologies to the wannabees on here whose thread was trashed by me and others after it went off piste. You all probably couldn't care less about any of it right now and skipped through it at >mach2.
Last edited by Confusious; 9th Jan 2023 at 09:11.
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It's not discrediting the whole BA selection process, its stating a provable fact that no selection process is 100% successful.
Any airline no matter the selection has pilots that made it through the selection, but are far from the "ideal" the airline wants.
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I’m sorry but the BA selection is a joke , if you are looking to recruit a robot who can say the right things to HR then great.
They don’t get to see what the person would actually be like on a 14hr day …..
They don’t get to see what the person would actually be like on a 14hr day …..
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The post before yours sums it up nicely. Look at the “assessment process” used several times in the last few years to select the UK’s Prime Minister….but that’s a discussion for the pub…
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Edited to add:
From my (very limited I must admit) understanding the current recruitment process has in fact been slimmed down, gone are the numerical and verbal reasoning elements “on the day”, having been replaced by an online element completed before the assessment day. This is an improvement in my opinion, although I am not a great fan of online tests and if I had to do them today I would probably fail spectacularly!
No interview and selection process is perfect; BA is no exception. Things may well have changed but certainly my recollection is of being pleasantly surprised that I wasn’t expected to recite chapter and verse of number of aircraft in different fleets or company history (well, not as specific questions anyway), very much more a “get to know you” and some competency based questions.
Last edited by Speed_Trim_Fail; 9th Jan 2023 at 10:58.
