Advice on latest conditions BA, QR, ABB, EK, Sunclass

[hunterboy]

De fumo…Pre Brexit had hundreds of crew resident in France paying nothing due to the previous dual taxation agreement . Post Brexit, Brits are pretty much restricted to the countries you mentioned. It’s certainly, not a step to be taken lightly, however, the majority of pilots that I know that moved abroad tend to stay there. Whether that will change in retirement remains to be seen.

[cefey]

First of all, thank you everyone for your inputs and for sharing so much helpful information! This discussion answered several of the questions I didn't even asked, thank you!
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[Kennytheking]

Originally Posted by cefey

After reading your discussion and few other topics here, for now I decided to stay away from ME (EK, QR) due to the fact that they fly 120-150hrs. I would be OK staying there (spend most of my time at home with my family, just like I do now and most likely would do in any other country), but I guess it won't be much time at home with so much flying. Fatigue is another factor I'd like to avoid. 6 ULH a month doesn't sound like a dream to me and while money is good, it's just OK if you do salary/BH.

Just for the sake of accuracy, at EK, we do not do 120 - 150 hours per month. I can't comment on QR though. I have a busy month next month with 90 hours - 4 trips, 2 of them ULR. I have 12 clear days off and another 6 or so rest/standby days, for a good 18 days at home.

[cefey]

Originally Posted by Kennytheking

Just for the sake of accuracy, at EK, we do not do 120 - 150 hours per month. I can't comment on QR though. I have a busy month next month with 90 hours - 4 trips, 2 of them ULR. I have 12 clear days off and another 6 or so rest/standby days, for a good 18 days at home.

Really? That sounds a lot nicer. Does all flight time counts or when you have "controlled rest" it doesn't goes toward your BH/logbook?

[Kennytheking]

Originally Posted by cefey

Really? That sounds a lot nicer. Does all flight time counts or when you have "controlled rest" it doesn't goes toward your BH/logbook?

That is a more complicated question. When doing ULR, you cannot log the time spent in the bunk unless you are the operating crew. So for a typical 28 hour return to Ozzie, you will probably book about 21 hours. They call this factoring and it means that you can fly more than the legal limits. For the 5 years pre-covid, I averaged about 950 hours per year block time and it comes out at about 800 hours stick time. At the end of the day, they paid me for 950 hours.

Make no mistake, you will fly a lot and work hard but it is not the 120 - 150 hours with 6 ULR that you described earlier. My 90 hours this month represents 5 hours overtime and they will pay me an extra $1 000 for this.

[cefey]

Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I got the impression it's even worse in QR.
In addition that apartments are a lot worse than EK, no LOL insurance, cut in education money for kids, etc. At least my impression, between EK and QR, EK is a lot better option for a pilot.
In short, would you recommend an FO to go to EK? Cause most people in the QR thread say "get the upgrade, apply for QR". Well, not directly to me, but whenever anyone asked a similar question.

[Kennytheking]

Originally Posted by cefey

Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I got the impression it's even worse in QR.
In addition that apartments are a lot worse than EK, no LOL insurance, cut in education money for kids, etc. At least my impression, between EK and QR, EK is a lot better option for a pilot.
In short, would you recommend an FO to go to EK? Cause most people in the QR thread say "get the upgrade, apply for QR". Well, not directly to me, but whenever anyone asked a similar question.

Unfortunately, I can't really offer you any concrete suggestions. There is a line of reasoning that says become a Captain at all costs - I don't really subscribe to it. Might work in a perfect world but my experience is that you what you plan today falls apart in 5 years time because requirements are different. If you want to fly nice wide body aircraft all over the world, then EK is as good as it gets and you should simply get there ASAP(B737/A320 command hours is not really going to help you at EK and you will simply be further down the seniority list than if you had just moved ASAP) - this is my opinion and there are plenty that will not agree with me. You might be able to do the same with a legacy carrier in your own country - thats fine, then do that but if not then EK is a good place to be. I don't know much a QTR but I suspect that it not as good as EK - that said, be skeptical of what you read here - a lot of haters with an axe to grind.

Feel free to drop me a PM if you like.

[lobsterbisque]

KtK is spot on, i would caveat though the way EK treated their crew during covid; whilst at the end of the day the airlines see us as licences on seats EK treated thier staff in a manner that i think was deplorable, even after 20+ years in this game i was shocked as to how low they could sink. Having said that i know folk that have gone back in a heartbeat and others that have told EK to stick it where the sun don't shine.

[Fursty Ferret]

As a DEP with the hours I would have thought you’d achieve a LGW command within two years, LHR SH within five.

LH is probably still 15-20 years.

[Pickuptruck]

Originally Posted by Busdriver01

Can I add a different perspective to all this? You *can* work for a carrier that pays a gazillion £ per year or live in a tax free country and take home £20k/month, commuting to and from your base airport, but when all is said and done, that may very well not end up being as enjoyable as you think it would be. There's a lot to be said (for most people) for living within a reasonable distance of work, family, friends, etc. Even if it does mean you pay tax.

This hits the nail on the head. You can head off to your quick upgrade Expat job but invariably you find yourself putting off all those hobbies you were doing in the UK because you just can't do them in the sandpit or Asia. So you put your whole life on hold while you work before retiring back to your home country. Many of my past colleagues realised at around age 45-50 that actually they don't want to stay in the sandpit or Asia and strangely enough there isn't a DEC job at a legacy carrier anywhere back home. If you can't retire early from an expat gig, and the money these days isn't what it was, then it kind of defeats the purpose of being thousands of miles away from friends and family as they grow old and die in your absence. And worse still the hobbies and sports you put off when you left you're too old to now do on your return.
There's both a degree of happiness and a degree of money required in life..........

[Flying Clog]

Totally agree. I spent 20 years in the Far East and couldn't be happier back home. No regrets, but glad I made the move back west in my late 40s. Still prime time to enjoy my hobbies and fly another 10-15 years, albeit not for a legacy. I even managed to hold on to wife no.1, which is a rarity for an expat, and financially sound.

If I could turn back the clock, I suppose I would have pursued a career at a UK/Euro Legacy in my mid 20s. But I can't complain financially of course with my ultimate decision. Saying that, there's more to life than dosh. And there's no dosh in expat work these days anyway, so the aforementioned point is somewhat moot.