BA Holdpool

[IslandHoppa]

Originally Posted by Pilot lad

You need to do the form and also apply for either positions advertised.

Brilliant thanks!

Will be good if we all keep this thread updated when we hear back etc!

[Lordflasheart]

Dysfunctional ...

...

" ... the inexplicable management culture at BA which sees senior management determined to constantly be at war with their own staff. "

"The picture I’m getting is of BA management doing whatever they want and BALPA saying ‘ok’ ... "

I'm told .... the CEO no longer answers even serious emails from his employees questioning frequent failures of the operation - passes them to a middle-manager for fob-off replies. The discredited COO is on his way back to Engineering. The new saviour COO doesn't take post until October. Several different airlines (mostly from Spain) are contracted to fly the BA summer services that BA can't manage and IT is apparently now being masterminded by IAG.

As for pay, they're trying to ignore BALPA and perpetuate a significant covid pay cut - see my concurrent thread - British Airways and 'The Delta' Pay Cut. - Some fascinating replies, thank you. Now it's apparently in the Telegraph.

If you ever wonder about the meaning of 'dysfunctional' sit down with a couple of Tubby Linton's cold 'uns and read this recent Employment Tribunal Judgment - sent to me by a well-wisher. Page 1 will tell you all you need to know.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribun...841-slash-2020

Shocking - I tell you ! Utterly shocking !!

LFH

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Alrosa

Fair enough. Can I ask why BALPA hasn’t done more to look after its members’ interests at BA ? Or perhaps that might open a can of worms.

The picture I’m getting is of BA management doing whatever they want and BALPA saying ‘ok’ ….happy to be corrected!

First off, the last two years has seen BALPA have to say “OK” to some things we would never normally countenance. No one knew how this was all going to play out and, quite rightly, the focus at the beginning of the pandemic during great uncertainty was the preservation of members jobs.

The bigger question and one we don’t really know the answer to is why the 2019 strike was called off, seemingly in the middle of the dispute and with little to show for it. Only a handful of people currently know the answer to this and no one is talking.

I do have some sympathy with balpa. People seem to believe that if they just asked for stuff BA would hand it over. Ultimately any meaningful concessions from BA rely on one of two things. Forget woolly talk of “morale” or “loyalty” or “doing the right thing”. These things are worth nothing to BA. The first is market forces, if they cannot recruit sufficient people - we shall see how the new campaign goes. Second would be successful strike action, or the threat of it, changing their calculus somehow. After 2019 I can understand why some were not keen to rush down this path. Make no mistake though, with other unions now seeing high single digit pay rises we are on the fast track to confrontation. This time around I don’t think its a fight BALPA can afford to lose.

[Sawdust]

Originally Posted by Seosan

EZY are no better. Every single pay talk ends up in FTA level 2 before miraculously being resolved at two minutes to midnight. Our FOs get over 20k less than PP1 FO on a forced winter PT contract so variable pay is practically non-existent for 4-5 months. All this whilst still paying bonkers rent prices if you choose to live close to Gatwick in Brighton, Horsham etc. You can start to see the appeal on paper even if the reality is operationally worse.

No airline with shareholders is out to help the pilots, FAs or any other Tom, Dick or Harry combat inflation or improve their QOL. It’s all about the bottom line. Even J2 with their wonderful pay rises given by the hand of God himself still work in an airline who hate unionised workers and give out these perks in order to stem BALPA membership. Then again with BA BALPA you may be better off without them!

Genuinely sorry you feel that way about EZY. Personally I think the name fits pretty well, because even at LGW I think we’ve got it pretty good. I’ve rarely felt tired/fatigued and don’t seem to pass 70 hours a month, even before C-19 during summer. The pay initially isn’t great I’ll agree, but a command in 6 years and being on £135k is not the worst deal. In the two years before COVID I did 680 and 645 hours respectively. Not bad for full time!

Being someone in the BA holdpool, I feel there are enough people ‘warning’ me of the current climate, not just on this thread but also in person. For all your sakes I hope you are able to resolve your disputes with the company, and be treated with the respect you all deserve. While it was once my ideal job, I don’t think I have thick enough skin to deal with the BS you guys are facing! Good luck.

[skyflyer101]

So for the ones who had to fill in the update info form for BA, after you fill in all your updates it said we have no further info on timescales etc. so back in limbo again. This campaign is 2023 and beyond and primarily A320. So this could well drag on into 2024 if the economy isn’t doing well and it doesn’t look like LH is going to happen and from what people are saying, SH doesn’t seem great at all :/

Can anyone inside ba comment on the need for LH recruitment? I can’t imagine fleets like the 787 are undercrewed atm, probably overcrewed/oversubscribed in fact :/

[Chief Willy]

Originally Posted by skyflyer101

So for the ones who had to fill in the update info form for BA, after you fill in all your updates it said we have no further info on timescales etc. so back in limbo again. This campaign is 2023 and beyond and primarily A320. So this could well drag on into 2024 if the economy isn’t doing well and it doesn’t look like LH is going to happen and from what people are saying, SH doesn’t seem great at all :/

Can anyone inside ba comment on the need for LH recruitment? I can’t imagine fleets like the 787 are undercrewed atm, probably overcrewed/oversubscribed in fact :/

It is likely there will be no LH recruitment as LH is so heavily oversubscribed by SH pilots who are free to bid. They get priority over DEPs. That being said there may be a small amount of LH DEP recruitment if training capacity limits are reached, but none is planned at this stage.

The 787 is currently overcrewed due delayed deliveries. The 787 and 350 will have demand in 2023 for more heads but will be so popular internally I’d be very surprised if DEPs got a sniff at those. The 777 and 380 fleets will need heads as pilots from those fleets move on to command and to the 787/350. As to whether or not DEPs get a sniff at 777/380 depends on how popular those fleets are internally. A 6 year freeze on a dieing fleet vulnerable to the next downturn will put a lot of people off internally as in BA redundancy is now done by fleet.

[skyflyer101]

Thanks chiefwilly, confirming what I suspected :/ is it a possibility that there are still people sitting in the existing hold pool beyond 2023 or is that very unlikely would you say?

[Chief Willy]

Originally Posted by skyflyer101

Thanks chiefwilly, confirming what I suspected :/ is it a possibility that there are still people sitting in the existing hold pool beyond 2023 or is that very unlikely would you say?

I gather the PRP pilots who want to return to BA will have done so by this year so 2023 should be PHP (not many) and DEPs.

[Capt. G L Walker]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

The bigger question and one we don’t really know the answer to is why the 2019 strike was called off, seemingly in the middle of the dispute and with little to show for it. Only a handful of people currently know the answer to this and no one is talking.

Perhaps someone who was at Virgin in around 2012 will tell you what BALPA are capable of?

[Phantom4]

Does anyone know if they are using Boeing or Airbus sim for DEP assessment?

[smoggy68]

PHP

Has anyone in the PHP heard back from BA following the recent email re expression of interest in EF?
I wonder where those of us in the PHP stand now BA are recruiting direct entry.
I believe the php included cadets and tagged white tails not sure of numbers?
Any information would be greatly appreciated!

[kendrick47247]

Originally Posted by smoggy68

Has anyone in the PHP heard back from BA following the recent email re expression of interest in EF?
I wonder where those of us in the PHP stand now BA are recruiting direct entry.
I believe the php included cadets and tagged white tails not sure of numbers?
Any information would be greatly appreciated!

(Some) TRd members of the PHP have been issued start dates and contracts.

There’s some confusion with members of the holdpool thinking they are PHP, this isn’t the case

[BAreject]

BA short-haul is full of ex ezy pilots.

If you're considering leaving ezy (or any other reputable airline in the UK!) this time round, you seriously need to think long and hard. You'd be leaving a stable secure outfit (that made no compulsory redundancies) to join BA at the bottom of the seniority list in an airline that has proven it will get rid of junior pilots with the click of a finger.

If you're leaving some dodgy ACMI/Mid East outfit and desperate to get back to the UK, then use BA as a stepping stone.

[Sick]

Originally Posted by BAreject

use BA as a stepping stone.

are BA type ratings still unbonded?

[FACoff]

As a previously orange, now BA short haul pilot I feel duty-bound to chime in and concur with the above warnings. easyJet may have its gripes but do not fall into the greener grass trap as I did, nor for that matter any of the absolute garbage you may read in the job adverts about them "listening and caring", or switching fleet "when it suits your career" (read: when and IF it suits BA).
The harsh reality is that JSS will decimate your lifestyle, you'll have a perpetual basic pay cut of anywhere between 4 and 10% per month (but they won't tell you until the day before payday), and you'll likely find yourself participating in industrial action in the not-too-distant future. All with now markedly less job security.

I wholeheartedly agree with the above - if you need to return to the UK, go for it. If you're in a half decent outfit already, then you'll be in for a shock.

[sudden twang]

Is that right about unfrozen pilots have a right to a fleet move ahead of DEPs ?
and is it redundancy by fleet now?
I suspect BA will leave the option of LH DEP open to tempt applicants if NV LH they’ll offer SH in the hope some will take it.

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by sudden twang

Is that right about unfrozen pilots have a right to a fleet move ahead of DEPs ?
and is it redundancy by fleet now?
I suspect BA will leave the option of LH DEP open to tempt applicants if NV LH they’ll offer SH in the hope some will take it.

If you haven't already then you might want to look at this thread:

British Airways and 'The Delta' Pay Cut.

and in particular the posts by the likes of Twosugars..

I was at BA when it hit the fan just over two years ago and the opinion was the company very very much wanted redundancy by fleet. They didn't quite get that. Whilst BALPA had it's critics over their part of how some of it was handled I think they did well to avoid the whole 744 pilot force being given the bullet....

If there's a next time around who knows what will happen but the intent of management was pretty clear.

[Chief Willy]

Originally Posted by sudden twang

Is that right about unfrozen pilots have a right to a fleet move ahead of DEPs ?
and is it redundancy by fleet now?
I suspect BA will leave the option of LH DEP open to tempt applicants if NV LH they’ll offer SH in the hope some will take it.

Yes it is “right”. Whether or not BA stick to their own rules though is anyone’s guess.

BA tried to make the 747 and LGW pilots all redundant. BALPA changed it and pilots are paying for it via the “delta”. But ultimately BA have set a precedent for redundancy by fleet. This might make the 777 and 380 less popular for internal moves, so yes it is possible that there will be LH DEP recruitment to those fleets. I can’t see DEPs to the 787 and 350 but then again, this is BA and they tend to do what they want.

[sudden twang]

Ah thank you Chief and Wiggy.
sounds like buyer beware

[kendrick47247]

Originally Posted by smoggy68

Does this mean there is another holdpool (other than PRP & PHP)?
I have been led to believe I was in the PHP along with cadets and other tagged but maybe this is not the case. I’m finding it difficult to get information from BA.

Are you a cadet/tagged yourself?