British Pilots : The fight back begins.
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I do agree with you; it is sadly funny to see that many UK colleagues wave the discrimination/racism flag on the issue. Easier to put the head in the sand than face reality. Blame game.
The only thing left to do is to go in front of Westminster and have a straight chat with the MPs that betrayed the promises made on all fronts.
Brexit is the greatest scam of all times.
There is no return i am afraid.
The only thing left to do is to go in front of Westminster and have a straight chat with the MPs that betrayed the promises made on all fronts.
Brexit is the greatest scam of all times.
There is no return i am afraid.
wiggy
No don’t think most really thought it would go back to the original CAA FTL’s but the supposedly democratic way it was voted through the EU showed a dark side.It didn’t enhance safety within the UK and nothing could be done about it.
Maybe it showed British pilots the ugly side of the EU when we’ve been told by many it was an angelic, pure and shining light of democracy.
No don’t think most really thought it would go back to the original CAA FTL’s but the supposedly democratic way it was voted through the EU showed a dark side.It didn’t enhance safety within the UK and nothing could be done about it.
Maybe it showed British pilots the ugly side of the EU when we’ve been told by many it was an angelic, pure and shining light of democracy.
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How about getting together and picketing. I'm not saying at number 10 but at your local MP-s or at the CAA or something. Would at least give you 20 seconds on the evening news coz i haven't seen or read anything on the issue so far in any of the major media outlets. I stand to be corrected of course. But if fishermen could put their foot down and at least got their issues to be debated about in the commons so flightcrew could get a similar result.
Frankly if anybody believed the EU was angelic pure and a shining light of democracy then it’s also not surprising they also believed the leave campaign and they really do deserve the bridge they bought.
As I remember the FTL debate the argument as much as anything was that it stopped certain operators using permissive FTLs to undercut other operators in the EU…I know in an ideal world EASA would have rushed to buy into the supposed shining light that was CAP 371 but we’re back to the world of European organizations, horse trading and negotiating again….
The ironic thing (not) is that by putting themselves outside EASA I suspect British pilots have perhaps (only IMHO) made it easier for UK based companies to migrate even further away from 371, rather than move back toward it…and given the state of the industry in the UK the CEOs/CFOs have plenty of ammunition should they wish to go down that road with the UK CAA/HMG
As I remember the FTL debate the argument as much as anything was that it stopped certain operators using permissive FTLs to undercut other operators in the EU…I know in an ideal world EASA would have rushed to buy into the supposed shining light that was CAP 371 but we’re back to the world of European organizations, horse trading and negotiating again….
The ironic thing (not) is that by putting themselves outside EASA I suspect British pilots have perhaps (only IMHO) made it easier for UK based companies to migrate even further away from 371, rather than move back toward it…and given the state of the industry in the UK the CEOs/CFOs have plenty of ammunition should they wish to go down that road with the UK CAA/HMG
booze
You might get on the evening news, but the result might not be the same.
Flight crews have an image issue, they are seen as entitled, often arrogant and aloof. Whenever pilots talked about industrial action they were seen as pampered and even now I doubt that the public view will be much different.
You might get on the evening news, but the result might not be the same.
Flight crews have an image issue, they are seen as entitled, often arrogant and aloof. Whenever pilots talked about industrial action they were seen as pampered and even now I doubt that the public view will be much different.
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I don't believe there is much to separate our home grown crowd of corrupt politicos from their Southern European counterparts, it's just that it is more obvious the nearer you get to the equator
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no sponsor
B747 is currently the best rating to have. Cargolux, CLA, ASL, Air Atlanta, Silkway are all desperate for qualified 747 pilots. And at least some of them do take British UKCAA licensed pilots.
This whole Brexit saga is a effin mess. Anyone who said they didn’t see this coming did not think about possible consequences at all. Many of my British former pilot colleagues voted for Brexit, working for an EU company based in the EU commuting in from the UK. Incredible!!!
but if is any solace. I will not in a hundred years apply for a job in the UK
B747 is currently the best rating to have. Cargolux, CLA, ASL, Air Atlanta, Silkway are all desperate for qualified 747 pilots. And at least some of them do take British UKCAA licensed pilots.
This whole Brexit saga is a effin mess. Anyone who said they didn’t see this coming did not think about possible consequences at all. Many of my British former pilot colleagues voted for Brexit, working for an EU company based in the EU commuting in from the UK. Incredible!!!
but if is any solace. I will not in a hundred years apply for a job in the UK
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SaulGoodman
Saw the same thing happening at my workplace...
... and now they are all complaining around. Those, that did not convert to an EASA license have been terminated (because they were believing for some last minute solution?
)
I strongly invite everyone to consider that this is not the fault of EASA or the European Union.
The brits voted out, so the 51% that voted for Brexit should deal with this now.
Saw the same thing happening at my workplace...
... and now they are all complaining around. Those, that did not convert to an EASA license have been terminated (because they were believing for some last minute solution?
)I strongly invite everyone to consider that this is not the fault of EASA or the European Union.
The brits voted out, so the 51% that voted for Brexit should deal with this now.
Only half a speed-brake
Wiggy
Yes, more ancient and deep-rooted powers at play. Any change whatsoever will be used as an opportunity to reduce expenses. It's not even personal, worklife is a constant swim upstream.
UK citizens and customers, UK AOC and G- registered. Validate and welcome other countries' licences and nationals if required when appropriate, but all taxes and social dues stay home.
The largest trouble is when the rules already in place are being circumnavigated (WZZ / RYR / IAG / ME3) over an extended period of time. In the long run, the discontent between reality and legislation will be solved by adjusting the law.
The best leverage from what you actually have is making sure present-day regulations are being followed, the base is not being eroded. Brexit may have (?) brought even a few options there, as much as the easy access to EU mainland job opportunities has been lost.
UK is a massive and wealthy market. There should be enough work for UK passport holders but the goose needs attending.
Post #116 and similar. Don't export the jobs and cash if there isn't a reasonable equivalent in return, fair and friendly do go in hand.
with hartfelt wishes of best luck,
Yes, more ancient and deep-rooted powers at play. Any change whatsoever will be used as an opportunity to reduce expenses. It's not even personal, worklife is a constant swim upstream.
UK citizens and customers, UK AOC and G- registered. Validate and welcome other countries' licences and nationals if required when appropriate, but all taxes and social dues stay home.
The largest trouble is when the rules already in place are being circumnavigated (WZZ / RYR / IAG / ME3) over an extended period of time. In the long run, the discontent between reality and legislation will be solved by adjusting the law.
The best leverage from what you actually have is making sure present-day regulations are being followed, the base is not being eroded. Brexit may have (?) brought even a few options there, as much as the easy access to EU mainland job opportunities has been lost.
UK is a massive and wealthy market. There should be enough work for UK passport holders but the goose needs attending.
Post #116 and similar. Don't export the jobs and cash if there isn't a reasonable equivalent in return, fair and friendly do go in hand.
with hartfelt wishes of best luck,
Last edited by FlightDetent; 10th Aug 2021 at 07:58.
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Its definitely not the fault of EASA/EU. However Brexit is also not the fault of the British pilots. British pilots that do possess both an EASA license and UKCAA license might actually have a good position in the future.
Setting up a new AOC cost a lot of time, money and effort. And as long as you are not planning to start flying within the UK you don’t need one. So these companies require an EASA license and the right to work in the UK. I don’t see how that is “discrimination” towards British pilots. There are also jobs for FAA licensed pilots with the right to live and work in the EU. Similar thing.
Setting up a new AOC cost a lot of time, money and effort. And as long as you are not planning to start flying within the UK you don’t need one. So these companies require an EASA license and the right to work in the UK. I don’t see how that is “discrimination” towards British pilots. There are also jobs for FAA licensed pilots with the right to live and work in the EU. Similar thing.
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Such irony when you consider that partly, Brexit came about by "Johnny Foreigner taking Brit jobs" but anyone saying that was of course termed a racist.
And yet after Brexit happens the ineptitude of the British government has created precisely that senario?
I really cannot help but think how the Australians would react in such a situation? Or the French?
But in the UK we have all been conditioned to simply suck it all up! 'Such a sad country now I am afraid.
And yet after Brexit happens the ineptitude of the British government has created precisely that senario?
I really cannot help but think how the Australians would react in such a situation? Or the French?
But in the UK we have all been conditioned to simply suck it all up! 'Such a sad country now I am afraid.
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Right now things are pretty bleak for UK citizens and license holders alike, the jobs seem to all be opening up in the EU requiring EU citizenship.
I would put a lot of this down to the restrictions on UK air travel. Once these restrictions are removed and UK air travel is really allowed to takeoff again the UK job market will expand and it will be limited to UK citizens.
In future there will be a lot of UK pilot positions exclusive to UK citizens whereas previously all of Europe could apply. At least this is what I expect - there may be light at the end of the tunnel.
I would put a lot of this down to the restrictions on UK air travel. Once these restrictions are removed and UK air travel is really allowed to takeoff again the UK job market will expand and it will be limited to UK citizens.
In future there will be a lot of UK pilot positions exclusive to UK citizens whereas previously all of Europe could apply. At least this is what I expect - there may be light at the end of the tunnel.
And vice versa.
The problem now is total reliance on the UK industry whereas a few months ago you had the entire EU industry to go at. EU pilots still have that option. UK pilots do not.
The problem now is total reliance on the UK industry whereas a few months ago you had the entire EU industry to go at. EU pilots still have that option. UK pilots do not.
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For those crowing about BREXIT and the law of unintended consequences it may be worth considering that the EU is not the bed of roses it’s advocates believe it is. The Netherlands and France have sizeable leaving minded people. Poland and Hungary have sovereignty issues with regard to EU refugee quotas. In Germany local courts have ruled that local laws trump the European count. There is talk of tax harmonisation which will pitch the affluent Northern States against the Southern states.
A320LGW
Can you get that in writing from HMG?
Look, as I’m sure you realize from my previous posts I think at best Brexit can be described as one of the most successful bait and switch operations of all time.
That said I hope for your and many other people’s sake the market recovers and pilot recruitment (both UK and EU) picks up, but I’d be highly sceptical that the people who created this mess are going to rush to ensure exclusive positions for UK citizens in the UK in any job.
Can you get that in writing from HMG?
Look, as I’m sure you realize from my previous posts I think at best Brexit can be described as one of the most successful bait and switch operations of all time.
That said I hope for your and many other people’s sake the market recovers and pilot recruitment (both UK and EU) picks up, but I’d be highly sceptical that the people who created this mess are going to rush to ensure exclusive positions for UK citizens in the UK in any job.
In future there will be a lot of UK pilot positions exclusive to UK citizens whereas previously all of Europe could apply.