Aegean Airlines Fly for Food
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Good point, OutsideCAS. We have already seen some good examples of employers being honest with staff and acting in good will and with a long-term outlook rather than opportunistically. Those will be the companies which will be employers of choice in the future. The others will either have to accept their role as stepping stones onto something better or up their game somehow.
Unfortunately, we've still got a way to go until any of that materialises. And, in trying times like today, everyone needs to ask themselves why they are in aviation and what do they expect to get out of it. And some answers to that question might make it obvious for the individual that they're in the wrong walk of life and now is the perfect opportunity to "Rethink, reskill, reboot" without anyone ever asking you why you decided to do it.
Unfortunately, we've still got a way to go until any of that materialises. And, in trying times like today, everyone needs to ask themselves why they are in aviation and what do they expect to get out of it. And some answers to that question might make it obvious for the individual that they're in the wrong walk of life and now is the perfect opportunity to "Rethink, reskill, reboot" without anyone ever asking you why you decided to do it.
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Same old stories every time.. Pay us more and we will fly safer. But this time I read another idea "let's make the entry barriers so high that we got less new pilots, less competition and higher salaries" - this is very disgusting and perfect reason why unions in aviation shall be banned forever.
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I totally agree. Life in Greece is getting more and more expensive. Pilot salaries in Greece, on the other hand, are unacceptable. Working at a major airline within the Star Alliance Group is a big disgrace. I am more referring to pre-covid times. Now the situation is much different though I prefer to stay current on a lower budget and wait until the storm passes and then run away. I see some strong unions forming in the near future, just like in many other European countries, because this clown theatre will not be sustainable in the long-term.
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Work4Food
I've worked at Olympic and Aegean so I know the real salaries. And it pays for a pretty good standard of living over there. I don't think you'd find any pilot payslip at Aegean with €800. Or can you prove me wrong?
I've worked at Olympic and Aegean so I know the real salaries. And it pays for a pretty good standard of living over there. I don't think you'd find any pilot payslip at Aegean with €800. Or can you prove me wrong?
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I can prove you wrong AOGspanner...
720
Documented.
Of course, there was a loan to be paid back for the type rating, 300 euro. So it should had been 1020.
But then... How many big European Airlines (and Aegean is one), are charging the pilot for his type rating? Usually they are bonding them.
720
Documented.
Of course, there was a loan to be paid back for the type rating, 300 euro. So it should had been 1020.
But then... How many big European Airlines (and Aegean is one), are charging the pilot for his type rating? Usually they are bonding them.
Last edited by piravlos01; 2nd Nov 2020 at 17:58. Reason: Details added
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''There is no reason''.....What a lot of rubbish.
What a lot of rubbish.
Another Pilot wannabe computer programmer.
Another Pilot wannabe computer programmer.
I think a dash of realism is required here. Firstly, flying is generally not an academic vocation, outside I suppose a test flying environment. There is no reason for it to be academic, or require a high level of academic achievement as a prerequisite for entry. If anything, the required written elements are overly pedantic. There is no earthly reason that a knowledge of Mercator projections or polar stereographic charts should be required in 2020. There is simply no need for an in depth knowledge of aerodynamics, nor the intricacies of performance. The ATPLs may quite rightly be said to be simply learning for the sake of it, or to artificially increase the legitimacy of a flying licence as a qualification. Not only does 95%+ of what is assessed in the ATPL exams not have any practical application in the real world, but I'd venture that the overwhelming majority of current airline pilots would fail if presented with a Gen Nav or Met paper now.
The reality is that (airline) flying is extremely prescriptive, with a vast amount of automation (not just in terms of the aircraft themselves). Flight planning is done by the Jepp or LIDO computer at HQ, weight and balance is done by plugging numbers into a computer, ditto the performance. Increasingly the job on an airline pilot is to perform a series of actions (SOPs) by rote. Aircraft are extremely reliable, seldom have major mechanical problems, and are designed to be simple to operate. A high level of knowledge is neither expected nor required. To say that the job has been dumbed down would be an understatement.
With all of the above in mind, and bearing in mind that the imperative to cut costs is only going to accelerate due to the current circumstances, it's wholly unrealistic to expect that barriers to entry to the "profession" will increase.
With regard to salaries: you're only worth what the market thinks you're worth. That's true for any job. If an airline started offering "jobs" with zero pay tomorrow, there'd be a queue of people out the door ready to sign on the dotted line. It is therefore fanciful to think that there will be a return to anything like 2019 salaries for airline pilots any time soon, and probably ever again. This is a once in a generation opportunity for airline managers to completely redefine the "career" in terms of salaries and conditions, and you can guarantee that they're not going to waste it.
The reality is that (airline) flying is extremely prescriptive, with a vast amount of automation (not just in terms of the aircraft themselves). Flight planning is done by the Jepp or LIDO computer at HQ, weight and balance is done by plugging numbers into a computer, ditto the performance. Increasingly the job on an airline pilot is to perform a series of actions (SOPs) by rote. Aircraft are extremely reliable, seldom have major mechanical problems, and are designed to be simple to operate. A high level of knowledge is neither expected nor required. To say that the job has been dumbed down would be an understatement.
With all of the above in mind, and bearing in mind that the imperative to cut costs is only going to accelerate due to the current circumstances, it's wholly unrealistic to expect that barriers to entry to the "profession" will increase.
With regard to salaries: you're only worth what the market thinks you're worth. That's true for any job. If an airline started offering "jobs" with zero pay tomorrow, there'd be a queue of people out the door ready to sign on the dotted line. It is therefore fanciful to think that there will be a return to anything like 2019 salaries for airline pilots any time soon, and probably ever again. This is a once in a generation opportunity for airline managers to completely redefine the "career" in terms of salaries and conditions, and you can guarantee that they're not going to waste it.
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''There is no reason''.....What a load of rubbish.
What a load of rubbish.
Another Pilot wannabe computer programmer post.
Another Pilot wannabe computer programmer post.
I think a dash of realism is required here. Firstly, flying is generally not an academic vocation, outside I suppose a test flying environment. There is no reason for it to be academic, or require a high level of academic achievement as a prerequisite for entry. If anything, the required written elements are overly pedantic. There is no earthly reason that a knowledge of Mercator projections or polar stereographic charts should be required in 2020. There is simply no need for an in depth knowledge of aerodynamics, nor the intricacies of performance. The ATPLs may quite rightly be said to be simply learning for the sake of it, or to artificially increase the legitimacy of a flying licence as a qualification. Not only does 95%+ of what is assessed in the ATPL exams not have any practical application in the real world, but I'd venture that the overwhelming majority of current airline pilots would fail if presented with a Gen Nav or Met paper now.
The reality is that (airline) flying is extremely prescriptive, with a vast amount of automation (not just in terms of the aircraft themselves). Flight planning is done by the Jepp or LIDO computer at HQ, weight and balance is done by plugging numbers into a computer, ditto the performance. Increasingly the job on an airline pilot is to perform a series of actions (SOPs) by rote. Aircraft are extremely reliable, seldom have major mechanical problems, and are designed to be simple to operate. A high level of knowledge is neither expected nor required. To say that the job has been dumbed down would be an understatement.
With all of the above in mind, and bearing in mind that the imperative to cut costs is only going to accelerate due to the current circumstances, it's wholly unrealistic to expect that barriers to entry to the "profession" will increase.
With regard to salaries: you're only worth what the market thinks you're worth. That's true for any job. If an airline started offering "jobs" with zero pay tomorrow, there'd be a queue of people out the door ready to sign on the dotted line. It is therefore fanciful to think that there will be a return to anything like 2019 salaries for airline pilots any time soon, and probably ever again. This is a once in a generation opportunity for airline managers to completely redefine the "career" in terms of salaries and conditions, and you can guarantee that they're not going to waste it.
The reality is that (airline) flying is extremely prescriptive, with a vast amount of automation (not just in terms of the aircraft themselves). Flight planning is done by the Jepp or LIDO computer at HQ, weight and balance is done by plugging numbers into a computer, ditto the performance. Increasingly the job on an airline pilot is to perform a series of actions (SOPs) by rote. Aircraft are extremely reliable, seldom have major mechanical problems, and are designed to be simple to operate. A high level of knowledge is neither expected nor required. To say that the job has been dumbed down would be an understatement.
With all of the above in mind, and bearing in mind that the imperative to cut costs is only going to accelerate due to the current circumstances, it's wholly unrealistic to expect that barriers to entry to the "profession" will increase.
With regard to salaries: you're only worth what the market thinks you're worth. That's true for any job. If an airline started offering "jobs" with zero pay tomorrow, there'd be a queue of people out the door ready to sign on the dotted line. It is therefore fanciful to think that there will be a return to anything like 2019 salaries for airline pilots any time soon, and probably ever again. This is a once in a generation opportunity for airline managers to completely redefine the "career" in terms of salaries and conditions, and you can guarantee that they're not going to waste it.
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Hello everyone! Hope my message finds all of you well and healthy!
As the aviation sector is recovering again after the Covid-19 pandemic, I would like to ask you if the salary for newcomers in A3 is the same as referred above (800-1200€ net). It seems that A3 has plenty of flights from both ATH and SKG even for the winter period. I found info related to payscale stating that they earn a basic salary plus duty pay which is 0.02/km+9.8/sector (2016 info). Is this info still valid?
As the aviation sector is recovering again after the Covid-19 pandemic, I would like to ask you if the salary for newcomers in A3 is the same as referred above (800-1200€ net). It seems that A3 has plenty of flights from both ATH and SKG even for the winter period. I found info related to payscale stating that they earn a basic salary plus duty pay which is 0.02/km+9.8/sector (2016 info). Is this info still valid?
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Hi, you cannot receive private messages.
But to answer your question, I don’t know.
But to answer your question, I don’t know.
Hello everyone! Hope my message finds all of you well and healthy!
As the aviation sector is recovering again after the Covid-19 pandemic, I would like to ask you if the salary for newcomers in A3 is the same as referred above (800-1200€ net). It seems that A3 has plenty of flights from both ATH and SKG even for the winter period. I found info related to payscale stating that they earn a basic salary plus duty pay which is 0.02/km+9.8/sector (2016 info). Is this info still valid?
As the aviation sector is recovering again after the Covid-19 pandemic, I would like to ask you if the salary for newcomers in A3 is the same as referred above (800-1200€ net). It seems that A3 has plenty of flights from both ATH and SKG even for the winter period. I found info related to payscale stating that they earn a basic salary plus duty pay which is 0.02/km+9.8/sector (2016 info). Is this info still valid?
