UK to EASA
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Blake Seven
EU to the UK:
- Do you wish to make a deal on professional qualifications?
UK to the EU:
- No thanks.
EU to the UK:
- No problem. Your decision to be completely out then.
UK to the UK:
- Actually this might create some problems for our infrastructure. Let’s unilaterally recognise EASA Licenses.
UK to the EU:
- WHY WONT YOU RECOGNISE OUR LICENSES WHEN WE VALIDATE YOURS. THIS IS UNFAIR
…..a fairly large and bureaucratic organisation that has more important things to deal with, than disgruntled UK FCL holders. And a country that thinks that it is somehow an equal to a large multinational organisation that it wanted nothing to do with. EU is incredibly rule based and the current third country status was demanded by the UK. Within EASA there is no mechanism to recognise third country licenses; this sadly creates a very peculiar position for those third country license holders that were previously trained within EASA. This is a fact that was known and pointed out to the UK early on in the process, as highlighted in the CAA BREXIT website.
EU regulations have to be ratified by each member state, in order to become national law throughout the EASA membership. Not something that happens overnight. And quite frankly, where is the motivation to make this effort when currently the U.K. isn’t even honouring its existing trade deal with the EU and already asking (demanding) concessions from this deal…
EU to the UK:
- Do you wish to make a deal on professional qualifications?
UK to the EU:
- No thanks.
EU to the UK:
- No problem. Your decision to be completely out then.
UK to the UK:
- Actually this might create some problems for our infrastructure. Let’s unilaterally recognise EASA Licenses.
UK to the EU:
- WHY WONT YOU RECOGNISE OUR LICENSES WHEN WE VALIDATE YOURS. THIS IS UNFAIR
…..a fairly large and bureaucratic organisation that has more important things to deal with, than disgruntled UK FCL holders. And a country that thinks that it is somehow an equal to a large multinational organisation that it wanted nothing to do with. EU is incredibly rule based and the current third country status was demanded by the UK. Within EASA there is no mechanism to recognise third country licenses; this sadly creates a very peculiar position for those third country license holders that were previously trained within EASA. This is a fact that was known and pointed out to the UK early on in the process, as highlighted in the CAA BREXIT website.
EU regulations have to be ratified by each member state, in order to become national law throughout the EASA membership. Not something that happens overnight. And quite frankly, where is the motivation to make this effort when currently the U.K. isn’t even honouring its existing trade deal with the EU and already asking (demanding) concessions from this deal…
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Contact Approach
Unfortunately, when we left in Jan 2021 our EASA licences became nothing more than an ICAO licence. It is not great, but this is what our elected politicians decided. Do not ask me why.
This is not limited to aviation. There is a huge human cost to de Pfeffel's political choices in various sectors of the economy, such as fishing, manufacturing, banking, professional services. All those people who studied in the UK got shafted by the de Pfeffel's administration.
If you live in a EU country I can only advise to lobby your MEP to change the policy and unilaterally recognise our previously held licences. However, given the recent actions of the de Pfeffel's administration, I would not hold my breath.
Unfortunately, when we left in Jan 2021 our EASA licences became nothing more than an ICAO licence. It is not great, but this is what our elected politicians decided. Do not ask me why.
This is not limited to aviation. There is a huge human cost to de Pfeffel's political choices in various sectors of the economy, such as fishing, manufacturing, banking, professional services. All those people who studied in the UK got shafted by the de Pfeffel's administration.
If you live in a EU country I can only advise to lobby your MEP to change the policy and unilaterally recognise our previously held licences. However, given the recent actions of the de Pfeffel's administration, I would not hold my breath.
The problem Big D would be quickly solved in the UK Govt just admitted it had made a mistake (or rather had never thought about it ) and went back to into EASA - that only requires 1 country to do something - not 27
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As I live in a constituency represented by an opposition MP I am not even going to bother to lobby to rejoin the EASA.
Things may change under a different administration, but for now we remain outside the EASA.
Things may change under a different administration, but for now we remain outside the EASA.
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What has an EASA flight training course, completed in Spain 2020 got to do with Brexit, the UK gov or anything else you keep talking about, for the purpose of applying for a new Spanish EASA licence?
Because the U.K. CAA have been guardians of those licences and since the 1st of Jan there has been no official oversight of the CAA by EASA. So the U.K. CAA could have done anything to those licences without EASA officially knowing. We know they haven’t in practical terms but officially EASA doesn’t. It is bureaucracy pure and simple but that’s the whole point of a rules based organisation. It is that simple. Without official oversight since the first of Jan those licences no longer comply as EASA licences and so cannot be converted to them without following the official procedure. It comes down to as simple a statement as rules is rules. And EASA (nor any EASA member NAA) cannot unilaterally change their own rules without approval through the EU rules making mechanism. But as has been stated it is what the U.K. wished for and has left MANY professionals high and dry.
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Again, that is not what i am saying.
Why are EASA course completion certificates and skills tests completed far away from the UK not recognised for the purpose of applying for an initial EASA licence with a new member state. As an initial licence application!
Why are EASA course completion certificates and skills tests completed far away from the UK not recognised for the purpose of applying for an initial EASA licence with a new member state. As an initial licence application!
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I am sorry. But I have had it up to here with all this cakeism and self entitlement.
The UK is a third country to EASA. Exactly as they wanted to be. At their own initiative. Offer of EASA membership post BREXIT was declined by Boris.
The consequences of this decision by the UK, has been crystal clear and expressively laid out in writing. I believe the UK BREXIT Microsite went live early 2018?
Anybody who subsequently went and did pilot training in Spain in 2020, under the UK CAA oversight, failed to do their due diligence.
People who chose to remain in an employment which required a UK issued license, made that decision with the consequences available in black and white.
As one of ‘the three million’ I was faced with the same tough decision as all UK license holders; Do I stay in my current employment and lose EASA privileges. Or do I uproot my wife and kids, sell the house and find a job in the EU? My airline refused to let me SOLI out, and I had to acknowledge I was in charge of my own destiny. Was it an easy decision? Hell no. Am I upset with EASA for simply sticking to the rulebook? For being completely transparent and clear from day one? Deep down I think everybody is well aware of who instigated the current situation and to date keep trying to fit a square pig in a round hole…
I am deeply sympathetic for everyone who got stuck between a rock and a hard place because of BREXIT.
BUT. People need to grow up and stop this cherry picking and end this blame game. You want back into EASA? Welcome back! If not, you are a third country and will be treated exactly like every other third country. Where your training was carried out or which license you held in the past is not relevant. That is the law.
The UK is a third country to EASA. Exactly as they wanted to be. At their own initiative. Offer of EASA membership post BREXIT was declined by Boris.
The consequences of this decision by the UK, has been crystal clear and expressively laid out in writing. I believe the UK BREXIT Microsite went live early 2018?
Anybody who subsequently went and did pilot training in Spain in 2020, under the UK CAA oversight, failed to do their due diligence.
People who chose to remain in an employment which required a UK issued license, made that decision with the consequences available in black and white.
As one of ‘the three million’ I was faced with the same tough decision as all UK license holders; Do I stay in my current employment and lose EASA privileges. Or do I uproot my wife and kids, sell the house and find a job in the EU? My airline refused to let me SOLI out, and I had to acknowledge I was in charge of my own destiny. Was it an easy decision? Hell no. Am I upset with EASA for simply sticking to the rulebook? For being completely transparent and clear from day one? Deep down I think everybody is well aware of who instigated the current situation and to date keep trying to fit a square pig in a round hole…
I am deeply sympathetic for everyone who got stuck between a rock and a hard place because of BREXIT.
BUT. People need to grow up and stop this cherry picking and end this blame game. You want back into EASA? Welcome back! If not, you are a third country and will be treated exactly like every other third country. Where your training was carried out or which license you held in the past is not relevant. That is the law.
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How very condescending, contradictory and frankly stupid. Uprooting during a pandemic in search of new pastures during the worst crises aviation has faced is simply poor judgement and questionable at best.
Still avoiding answering the obvious yet seemingly difficult question.
Do you care to answer why those pilots aren’t simply eligible to apply for a new Spanish licence off the back of their EASA training which was completed with full compliance to EASA standards? What purpose does resitting the exact same training course and skills tests completed all but a few months ago, at the exact same school, in the exact same aircraft with the exact same examiner actually prove?
P.S Some are EU citizens, resident currently in the EU.
Still avoiding answering the obvious yet seemingly difficult question.
Do you care to answer why those pilots aren’t simply eligible to apply for a new Spanish licence off the back of their EASA training which was completed with full compliance to EASA standards? What purpose does resitting the exact same training course and skills tests completed all but a few months ago, at the exact same school, in the exact same aircraft with the exact same examiner actually prove?
P.S Some are EU citizens, resident currently in the EU.
Last edited by Contact Approach; 8th May 2021 at 10:02.
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how so? The UK is a third country to EASA. Plain and simple. EASA rules do not allow for recognition of third country licenses. No special treatment. What else do you need to know?
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Big_D
Yeah, that’s as I see it. But there’s a few conflated opinions on this thread.
Fwiw, I don’t include myself as seeking reissue off an EASA ticket but see a fair few colleagues now having their lives and that of their families turned upside down. Not their fault, advised against converting back to EASA by the Company, so what are they supposed to do?
Not only unable to work in the UK, but spurned by the EU/EASA machine.
Remember, these are EU citizens, not Brits/ 3rd country workers.
Yeah, that’s as I see it. But there’s a few conflated opinions on this thread.
Fwiw, I don’t include myself as seeking reissue off an EASA ticket but see a fair few colleagues now having their lives and that of their families turned upside down. Not their fault, advised against converting back to EASA by the Company, so what are they supposed to do?
Not only unable to work in the UK, but spurned by the EU/EASA machine.
Remember, these are EU citizens, not Brits/ 3rd country workers.
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I understand what you are getting at. But what a lot of people are trying to tell you, is that regardless of what you feel ‘should’ be the case with a former EASA License, this simply is not the way the law is written. You are arguing that a large multinational organisation of 30+ countries should re-write this law, which then has to be ratified by each individual member state. All of this because a former member state left the organisation. Yes?
Contact Approach
But it is something EASA is unable to do anything about. Ask the U.K. government to lobby the EU to make an exception.
I’m unsure who exactly you’re talking about in discussing your Spain ATO example. But it will be a limited amount of people.
EU students with a U.K. licence. Well the writing was on the wall and as has been said whilst spending 100k they should have been doing due diligence. I’m sorry but that’s the harsh reality of it.
U.K. students with a U.K. licence. They wouldn’t have the right to live and work in the EU anyway so only need an U.K. licence.
EU nationals living and working in the U.K. on 31st dec 2020 will still have the right to live and work in the U.K. either through settled or pre settled status. Pretty much every single EU national that was made redundant would have been made redundant in plenty of time to stay their SOLI out process. Those that weren’t made redundant can still use their U.K. licence.
so exactly on who’s behalf are you upset? Before you accuse me of arrogance. It’s bluntness
But it is something EASA is unable to do anything about. Ask the U.K. government to lobby the EU to make an exception.
I’m unsure who exactly you’re talking about in discussing your Spain ATO example. But it will be a limited amount of people.
EU students with a U.K. licence. Well the writing was on the wall and as has been said whilst spending 100k they should have been doing due diligence. I’m sorry but that’s the harsh reality of it.
U.K. students with a U.K. licence. They wouldn’t have the right to live and work in the EU anyway so only need an U.K. licence.
EU nationals living and working in the U.K. on 31st dec 2020 will still have the right to live and work in the U.K. either through settled or pre settled status. Pretty much every single EU national that was made redundant would have been made redundant in plenty of time to stay their SOLI out process. Those that weren’t made redundant can still use their U.K. licence.
so exactly on who’s behalf are you upset? Before you accuse me of arrogance. It’s bluntness
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bittersweetheart
No that is absolutely not what I am saying.
What i am saying is: irrespective of holding a UK licence, why cant individuals re-apply for a new EASA licence, in a new member state for the issue of an new EASA licence based on the EASA training course they completed under the jurisdiction of EASA pre 1 Jan 2021. Documents to be submitted would be the EASA course completion forms compliant to EASA regs and skills tests, again compliant to EASA regs. The UK or holding a Uk licence has nothing to do with this. EASA are already allowing UK exams to be submitted as part of this process.
To make it even simpler for you, lets imagine you’ve just passed your skills tests and you’re applying for your first licence.
No that is absolutely not what I am saying.
What i am saying is: irrespective of holding a UK licence, why cant individuals re-apply for a new EASA licence, in a new member state for the issue of an new EASA licence based on the EASA training course they completed under the jurisdiction of EASA pre 1 Jan 2021. Documents to be submitted would be the EASA course completion forms compliant to EASA regs and skills tests, again compliant to EASA regs. The UK or holding a Uk licence has nothing to do with this. EASA are already allowing UK exams to be submitted as part of this process.
To make it even simpler for you, lets imagine you’ve just passed your skills tests and you’re applying for your first licence.
