UK to EASA
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Denti,
Take your politics elsewhere, it’s getting very boring now. The guy asked for help so give it to him. NAAs are accepting ATPL exams completed pre brexit, they were informed by EASA.
I can confirm this is correct as my son has just had his UK ATPLs accepted for this very purpose.
Take your politics elsewhere, it’s getting very boring now. The guy asked for help so give it to him. NAAs are accepting ATPL exams completed pre brexit, they were informed by EASA.
I can confirm this is correct as my son has just had his UK ATPLs accepted for this very purpose.
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Thanks guys,
It just seems unclear at the moment whether this applies to everyone who already have a UK CAA Atpl or current students in the process of obtaining a licence. I've been in touch with a couple authorities and hope to get a better understanding.
Hope the process is simple.
Cheers
It just seems unclear at the moment whether this applies to everyone who already have a UK CAA Atpl or current students in the process of obtaining a licence. I've been in touch with a couple authorities and hope to get a better understanding.
Hope the process is simple.
Cheers
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I think the problem is that no one really knows at the minute simply because the UK dropped out without a definite agreement in the TCA. There is scope for further agreements which is most likely but when that may be is anyones guess. EASA ought to do the decent thing and offer a simplified process for all those who held EASA licences and completed EASA training courses to be able to re apply for a new EASA licence.
And before Denti comes steaming in crying “third country, third country”, those who attained those Licences pre-Brexit did so as part of and in accordance with all EASA standards and regulations. Allowing those to regain sought privileges gained pre-Brexit is the only sensible way forward. Making them redo the exact same thing they’ve just done is just nonsensical.
For those finishing in 2021 this is where things may take some time to rectify as agreements will have to be sought.
Good luck.
And before Denti comes steaming in crying “third country, third country”, those who attained those Licences pre-Brexit did so as part of and in accordance with all EASA standards and regulations. Allowing those to regain sought privileges gained pre-Brexit is the only sensible way forward. Making them redo the exact same thing they’ve just done is just nonsensical.
For those finishing in 2021 this is where things may take some time to rectify as agreements will have to be sought.
Good luck.
Last edited by Contact Approach; 5th May 2021 at 10:43.
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There is no politics, i was just posting the official EASA information. It helps reading their brexit page.
Some NAAs do accept the exams, although EASA rules are very clear and do allow that only for student pilots in an integrated (not modular) program. They might be open to legal challenges, although that is very unlikely.
And no, of course EASA does not have the ability to change primary legislation. Third country license approval, and yes, sadly that is the legal status no matter what happened before, requires at least a Commission Directive like the one i linked above which was actually updated to deal specifically with Brexit in late 2020. That is simply EU rules 101.
The politics part is if there are any negotiations. And no, currently there are no negotiations in that area and there is no desire in the EU to do so as there is no pressing demand from either side, no matter how hard that might hit individuals.
Some NAAs do accept the exams, although EASA rules are very clear and do allow that only for student pilots in an integrated (not modular) program. They might be open to legal challenges, although that is very unlikely.
And no, of course EASA does not have the ability to change primary legislation. Third country license approval, and yes, sadly that is the legal status no matter what happened before, requires at least a Commission Directive like the one i linked above which was actually updated to deal specifically with Brexit in late 2020. That is simply EU rules 101.
The politics part is if there are any negotiations. And no, currently there are no negotiations in that area and there is no desire in the EU to do so as there is no pressing demand from either side, no matter how hard that might hit individuals.
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Denti,
Here are two responses from two independent EASA NAAs on this very topic. Where does it say it has to be integrated not modular?
You’re just clogging this thread up with useless information. People have lost their careers and spent thousands of euros and many years training for the privileges that they’ve just had revoked at no fault of their own. Your posts lack fact, tact and serve no purpose other than to rub it in their faces.
Be part of the solution not the problem.
- Provide a certificate of ATPL theoretical exams completed in accordance with FCL 0.25(c)(1). UK exams will be accepted provided they were completed prior to 31/12/20 and remain valid.
- XXX will continue to accept theoretical knowledge examination completion certificates for the purpose of issuing Part-FCL licenses and ratings in accordance with either Regulation (EU) 1178/2011 or Delegated Regulation (EU) 2020/723, provided that those examination completion certificates are still within their validity period in accordance with FCL.025(c) in Annex 1 to Regulation (EU) 1178/2011 and provided that they were issued by the UK CAA before 1 January 2021 in full compliance with Annex 1 (Part-FCL) to Regulation (EU) 1178/2011.
You’re just clogging this thread up with useless information. People have lost their careers and spent thousands of euros and many years training for the privileges that they’ve just had revoked at no fault of their own. Your posts lack fact, tact and serve no purpose other than to rub it in their faces.
Be part of the solution not the problem.
Last edited by Contact Approach; 5th May 2021 at 12:19.
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There is also this. FCL.025 (c) (2)
(c) Validity period
(1) .....
(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that licence.
Have asked one of the States mentioned above if this means that UK CPL/IR or ATPL holders with exams still valid under this EU law can apply for EASA licences with just the skills test and class 1 to do. Will report back when I hear.
(c) Validity period
(1) .....
(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that licence.
Have asked one of the States mentioned above if this means that UK CPL/IR or ATPL holders with exams still valid under this EU law can apply for EASA licences with just the skills test and class 1 to do. Will report back when I hear.
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I have queried the above with the IAA and been told that:
1) The allowance for exams applies to student pilots only, not for those who have already got a licence
2) Despite the allowance mentioning exams valid in accordance with FCL.025(c), they see it as FCL.025(c)(1) only and will not accept validity under FCL.025(c)(2).
1) The allowance for exams applies to student pilots only, not for those who have already got a licence
2) Despite the allowance mentioning exams valid in accordance with FCL.025(c), they see it as FCL.025(c)(1) only and will not accept validity under FCL.025(c)(2).
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Ahh, bless. Well excuse (1) is wrong because the 7 year validity becomes live for CPL IR holders on passing their IR and allows them to upgrade to ATPL without taking the ATPL exams again and (2) this is an EU regulation, not in their discretion, so they really should comply. Let's see what Austro say. One often gets answers 'shot from the hip' without proper consideration. Of course this question has only arisen since exit day.
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Herein lies the problem whereby suitably experienced Pilots are being made to resit everything needlessly despite having previously held EASA credentials and years of experience behind them. This situation is absurd. Richard, nobody currently knows, not even EASA.
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Hi,
I successfully completed mine in 2009.
As Alex quote;
FCL.025 (c) states the following:
Validity period(1) The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:
(i) for the issue of a light aircraft pilot licence or a private pilot licence, for a period of 24 months;
(ii) for the issue of a commercial pilot licence, instrument rating (IR) or en route instrument rating (EIR), for a period of 36 months;
(iii) the periods in (i) and (ii) shall be counted from the day when the pilot successfully completes the theoretical knowledge examination, in accordance with (b)(2).
(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that licence.
I successfully completed mine in 2009.
As Alex quote;
FCL.025 (c) states the following:
Validity period(1) The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:
(i) for the issue of a light aircraft pilot licence or a private pilot licence, for a period of 24 months;
(ii) for the issue of a commercial pilot licence, instrument rating (IR) or en route instrument rating (EIR), for a period of 36 months;
(iii) the periods in (i) and (ii) shall be counted from the day when the pilot successfully completes the theoretical knowledge examination, in accordance with (b)(2).
(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that licence.
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Contact Approach
I don't get it? It was clearly spelled out in the lead up to brexit. That in case of a hard brexit that a UK issued pilots licenses would no longer be a valid easa license. I too held a uk licence up to a year or two ago. It was clear to me, even back then. I don't know what to say, If you couldn't SOLI due to being employed by a UK employer, you might have some sort of legal recourse, between you and your current or former employer. But to those who are claiming ignorance, come on guys, you should have known better.
I don't get it? It was clearly spelled out in the lead up to brexit. That in case of a hard brexit that a UK issued pilots licenses would no longer be a valid easa license. I too held a uk licence up to a year or two ago. It was clear to me, even back then. I don't know what to say, If you couldn't SOLI due to being employed by a UK employer, you might have some sort of legal recourse, between you and your current or former employer. But to those who are claiming ignorance, come on guys, you should have known better.
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Lear999wa,
I have an EASA licence but i don’t wish to join you on your high horse. I may not be directly affected but many of my friends and relatives are and unfortunately for them they are stuck in the mud. Just because you were able to jump ship that’s not to say everyone could. Like i’ve said before there’s absolutely no reason why EASA can’t reissue new EASA licences to those who held them previously pre Brexit, if those individuals so wish, none whatsoever.
I have an EASA licence but i don’t wish to join you on your high horse. I may not be directly affected but many of my friends and relatives are and unfortunately for them they are stuck in the mud. Just because you were able to jump ship that’s not to say everyone could. Like i’ve said before there’s absolutely no reason why EASA can’t reissue new EASA licences to those who held them previously pre Brexit, if those individuals so wish, none whatsoever.
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Plenty of European pilots who couldn’t for whatever reason, SOLI back to EASA pre Jan, are now being seriously disadvantaged by EASAs inflexibility.
I get it that EASA would want to make it difficult for third country Pilots (even though the UK have been magnanimous in granting a two year validity for EASA pilots), but to place unnecessary and costly barriers to its own citizens is nuts!
I get it that EASA would want to make it difficult for third country Pilots (even though the UK have been magnanimous in granting a two year validity for EASA pilots), but to place unnecessary and costly barriers to its own citizens is nuts!
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That’s not what he’s asking.
It doesn’t require regulatory oversight of the CAA, for EASA to do the right thing and recognise previously held licences. They can do it unilaterally.
The fact they don’t want to, is baffling.
Reminiscent of returning Russian POWs, who were tried as traitors and sent to the Gulags.
It doesn’t require regulatory oversight of the CAA, for EASA to do the right thing and recognise previously held licences. They can do it unilaterally.
The fact they don’t want to, is baffling.
Reminiscent of returning Russian POWs, who were tried as traitors and sent to the Gulags.
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Blake Seven
There are many people in this situation, including myself. The UK Government led by Alexander de Pfeffel decided to leave professional qualifications and services in general outside the scope of the negotiations. Just to reiterate, it was a political choice.
As such, given that the EU is a rules-based trade organisation, there is no legal basis to recognise the licences.
There are many people in this situation, including myself. The UK Government led by Alexander de Pfeffel decided to leave professional qualifications and services in general outside the scope of the negotiations. Just to reiterate, it was a political choice.
As such, given that the EU is a rules-based trade organisation, there is no legal basis to recognise the licences.
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Why are you not able to grasp the simplicity of what I am saying?
Let me spell it out for you:
My argument has nothing to do with Brexit or the ECJ - nada, nothing, ziltch. The UK may have fallen out of EASA but that happened in 2021 not before.
People have paid money for something that was product EASA, they have the right, particularly if they conducted training in the EU, on EU reg aircraft, with EASA examiners, in full compliance with EASA regs to have that product restored, albeit under a new jurisdiction. Sod the UK, who cares. This has nothing to do with the UK directly, this is purely and simply about restoring what people worked for. They should have the right to have their previously sought qualifications acknowledged. A simple application to a member state for a new licence issue would suffice, as long as proof of compliance pre Brexit was assured, which would simply be any test completed pre 1 Jan 2021. Forget the UK licence, forget third country nonsense and just use the EASA course completion, skills test, ATPL results paperwork. Simple really.
Let me spell it out for you:
My argument has nothing to do with Brexit or the ECJ - nada, nothing, ziltch. The UK may have fallen out of EASA but that happened in 2021 not before.
People have paid money for something that was product EASA, they have the right, particularly if they conducted training in the EU, on EU reg aircraft, with EASA examiners, in full compliance with EASA regs to have that product restored, albeit under a new jurisdiction. Sod the UK, who cares. This has nothing to do with the UK directly, this is purely and simply about restoring what people worked for. They should have the right to have their previously sought qualifications acknowledged. A simple application to a member state for a new licence issue would suffice, as long as proof of compliance pre Brexit was assured, which would simply be any test completed pre 1 Jan 2021. Forget the UK licence, forget third country nonsense and just use the EASA course completion, skills test, ATPL results paperwork. Simple really.
