UK to EASA

[Denti]

Originally Posted by Horsepowerrr

It was all hear say and not solid. I specifically asked the CAA last November if they would accept EASA state licenses to fly a G reg airplane and they said they didn’t know what was going to happen exactly and was better to wait as there would be a grace period after it would be clear how it would all settle.

That was bad luck then, apparently the person at the CAA did not know what they were talking about, the CAA brexit microsite already had the acceptance of EASA licenses for 2 years on it by that date. Which is why so many, very well documented on this forum, have switched their license elsewhere, many to Ireland as the IAA apparently was very professional and fast about it.

I couldn’t take the risk to lose my flying job in the UK due to a hard Brexit with me holding a flying license in any European EASA state and then not being able to fly a G reg. Nobody knew what was exactly going to happen.
If it means I have to do a few exams and another LPC so be it, but it is of course ridiculous.

Well, if flying a G-reg is the main point, of course there is no change for you then. The only change is when coming back to the EU, obviously.

My license was issued when it was fully IAW the current EASA rules and my TRE on the last company LPC was not even British, but an EASA state TRE. So what if that TRE fills out paperwork of an EASA state now for that same check ride?

He can still sign any EASA license. No idea about a UK license. But of course, a UK licensed TRE will not be able to sign an EASA license anymore. Same as an FAA examiner cannot sign a UK or EASA license.

My license is and says it’s an EASA Part-FCL license. It’s not a national license, yet. That a nation moves out of the organization doesn’t mean the license isn’t anymore according to the regulations. Wouldn’t that be discrimination? What if I would get ramp checked in the US or Asia. My license as it is now doesn’t exist?

Again: good luck, but hopefully ramp checker do know those things by now. And yes, regardless what it says on the paper, it is not an EASA license anymore, from the EASA it is a normal non-EASA ICAO license. Nothing more, nothing less.

It’s weird. And doesn’t seem right.

By the way, many airlines set up European AOC’s and all due to not being able to otherwise operate in both Europe and the UK. Not because they knew EASA licenses would be accepted in the UK. They separated the two.
My airline/ employer operates in the UK and Europe and didn’t know what to do with crew licensing really and separated them and also the AOC’s.

I can understand that it doesn't sit right, after all, at the moment the UK has not yet diverged from the EASA rulebook (how could it? It is not a competent authority yet as it does neither have the personnel nor the infrastructure to fulfill all regulatory functions again). However, the UK did chose to leave the EASA, and that includes licensing. It was not forced to do so, it was a conscious choice by the UK negotiators. Services were not part of the negotiations since at least march 2020, and aviation, after all, is a service, which meant that all hard brexit advise was extremely likely come into force, as it largely has. Of course, a frank discussion with your employer probably would have alleviated the fear of losing a job, talking to ones responsible manager is often easier and yields better results than most pilots seem to think.

[deltahotel]

Hp.

Not sure who you work for, but if I read it right you currently operate Greg ac on a UK licence? So that’s ok so far and it would only become an issue if you went to a non uk airline.

If that’s not part of your current master plan then perhaps sit tight for a while and see what happens - it’s not impossible that there will be mutual recognition of licences in the future.

Bit of detail on TRE stuff. As EASA TRE I can sign EASA and UK licences. UK at least until end 2022 or expiry of my current certificate. Now that the CAA is going to allow UK licence issue to previous holders from (I think) Apr this year my company will doubtless ask me to do this for full flexibility. So, having surrendered my uk licence at the end of last year for IAA I will probably soon be going back for a reissue. Hopefully with my old CAA number.

Good luck

[Horsepowerrr]

I totally hear what you say and agree. If I would have know for sure the EASA licenses were going to be accepted in the UK I would have transferred it in a blink of an eye. Thing is you just didn’t know for sure as Brexit was and is strange and not logical. There were zero guarantees. So what is the safe option then to assure your job?

It’s easy to look back and say what the best thing to do was. As always.
It is what it is though and I will keep my UK license and probably will apply for a European one as well as that should be doable as my written exams were all done in the state that’s still EASA. So theoretically and hopefully just an ATPL checkride and possibly a LPE and it should be good.

dh, I just want to keep my options open in times like this and it’s better to have a license that doesn’t restrict you to one country. You are right though. Although who says licenses will be transferable or recognized in the future again and when would that be? Everybody is good friends with the US, but that never really happened with the US FAA license as well and the UK has the same status as third nation now.
Maybe the UK will come back and say they will go into EASA again. If that’s possible at all. Time will tell.

In my opinion one is currently better off with an EASA license as then you can work in Europe as well as the UK, the other way around one can’t.

It just stays all silly how it’s all done, but I suppose that covers most of the Brexit dealings are. Unnecessarily difficult.

[Banana Joe]

Do you have the right to live and work in the EU? Because I don't see how UK pilots will be employable with only an EASA license, or am I missing anything?

[dimvamv]

EASA UK licenced pilots maybe have been European citizens.....Just saying....

[flight scchool]

I agree with what Deltahotel said above. One more thing that I think is worth a mention in all this saga. There is one EU country that UK citizens have the right to reside and work in without any visas or hassle, and that's Ireland (and visa versa). I'm sure many are aware of that already. I thought maybe mentioning it might open up some possible avenues/bases of employment for UK guys. Cheers.

​​​​​​https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-area-guidance

[EI_DVM]

Only problem with Irish airlines, in particular the large blue and yellow one is that they may still require you to have the ability to live and work in the EU (not just Ireland), which now rules out UK Citizens. Even UK citizens that were previously resident in an EU country eg Spain or Italy, don't have the right to live and work in the EU now, just that one country.

This whole thing will really need to be sorted out but can't see it being done any time soon until emotions have calmed down and cooler heads can prevail.

[Horsepowerrr]

It’s almost a game EASA plays as a sort of punishment to the CAA and the UK. The UK CAA accepts EASA licenses still, but other way around they don’t.
No authority seems to understand why EASA doesn’t just recognize everything that happened before 1 January 2021. Instead they just make everything invalid.
Victims are all the crew in this case. I also hope they sort it out as it makes no sense at all and is bad for all involved.

[rudestuff]

It definitely feels like the kind of thing that could and should be challenged in a European court. By a disadvantaged European. It's entirety reasonable that someone from Europe who took their exams in Europe, did their flight training in Europe and took their LST in Europe with a European examiner (but was issued a UK licence) should feel entirely discriminated against. Or someone who SOLI'ed from French to UK who is now being told they can't SOLI back. Madness...

[Mcflyer101]

Anyone in this forum who‘s still waiting for his/her transfer from UK to EASA to be completed? Looks like due to Covid some CAAs are super slow with the transfer. And the UK seems to have moved the goalpost now and set a deadline for the 31.3.2021 by which the transfer should be completed. Does anyone else have the same issue?

[PapaEchoNovember]

Is there any truth to the rumor that EASA have agreed to accept EASA ATPL exams completed prior to 01/01/2021 for new licence issue?

[airpasty]

UK CAA form 159

Mcflyer101

Better check with your new EASA state, I just got an email from the IAA after a gentle prod. Looks like the UK CAA didn’t email over form 155 whatever that is.....Dear Sir, Madam,

“Please see below request sent 12/09/2020. It appears we have not received the DOC 155 for the above named pilot.”

[LandingGear60]

PapaEchoNovember

I wouldn’t say it’s a rumour. A group of us received it in writing from EASA after a few months of challenging the validity of them. They have now updated their website to reflect this change under the Brexit FAQs.

[PapaEchoNovember]

Thank you, I hadn’t spotted that.

I am a student pilot in an CPL/ATPL integrated course and I successfully completed my ATPL theoretical exams in the UK by December 31, 2020. Can I complete, after that date, the flight training in an ATO approved by an EASA Member State or EASA? Will my UK ATPL theory certificate of completion be accepted by EASA Member States for the licence issue after December 31, 2020?EASA Member State competent authorities may continue to accept such valid theoretical knowledge examination completion certificates for the purpose of issuing Part-FCL licenses and ratings in accordance with either Regulation (EU) 1178/2011 or Delegated Regulation (EU) 2020/723, provided that those examination completion certificates are still within their validity period in accordance with FCL.025(c) in Annex 1 to Regulation (EU) 1178/2011 and provided that they were issued by the UK CAA before January 01, 2021 in full compliance with Annex 1 (Part-FCL) to Regulation (EU) 1178/2011. In particular, in accordance with FCL.025(a)(1) in Annex 1 (Part-FCL) to Regulation (EU) 1178/2011, the entire set of theoretical knowledge examinations for a specific licence or rating must have been taken under the responsibility of the UK CAA.

Looks like this is geared towards CPL/IR students who completed their exams before 01/01/2021 rather than ATPL holders, if I’m correct this still means we need to complete the 14 exams to convert over as per (EU) 2020/723 and the full third country licence conversion process. (If the exams were completed more than 36 months ago, which I suspect they would be for most ATPL holders.

[OhNoCB]

This seems to be another victim of EASA unity. I know at least one authority that is telling me that the revised guidance is applicable for trainee pilots only and does not cover someone who already holds a licence, therefore not valid to go from UK to EASA. They claim this was direct guidance to the authority from EASA. I know of at least one OTHER authority that says this is acceptable and are happy to accept the exams for UK to EASA purposes.

With regard to the exam validity as per FCL.025, if you look at your screenshot at FCL.025(c)(2)(i), you will see that this point should keep the exams valid for the majority of ATPL holders.

[PapaEchoNovember]

Thank you for clarifying Let's hope common sense prevails. At least if we can get ATPL exam recongition it will give us the option of an EASA licence in the future, if we should need one.

[747AC]

Hey guys, Hope things are okay with you all,

Has there been any updates or new agreements for the conversion of UK CAA ATPL TO EASA ATPL, are our previous 14 theory exams not recognised and do we have to do them again in order to obtain an EASA ATPL?

Any info and help of how to obtain an EASA licence is highly appreciated.

Thank you very much.

[Denti]

This is what you can see on the EASA homepage in their Brexit FAQs: I am a holder of a UK issued ATPL and would like to convert that license into a license from an EASA Member State. How should I proceed?From January 01, 2021, your UK issued ATPL license is no longer valid to operate an aircraft registered in an EASA Member State. Unless you were able to transfer that license to an EASA Member State before that date, you will need to convert it into an EU license in accordance with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) No 2020/723. You can apply for that conversion to any of the EASA Member State competent authorities.
The description of that Regulation is:

Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2020/723 of 4 March 2020 laying down detailed rules with regard to the acceptance of third-country certification of pilots and amending Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011

Therefore it appears that no agreement has been found. Which is not really surprising that all of the 19 committees contained in the TCA have not been working until May 1st, as the UK was not willing to convene any of them as long as the EU had not ratified the TCA. There might be some work in one of those committees about that issue, but i see no real enthusiasm on the EU side in that regard as long as the UK is still not applying the TCA and the WA in full, see the arguments about the NI Protocol (WA) and cutting Jerseys electricity supply off (TCA).

[Contact Approach]

747AC,

EASA have agreed to allow ATPL theory exams undertaken in the uk pre 1/1/21 to be valid for the purpose of obtaining an EASA licence. As of yet nothing further has been agreed but theres significant pressure to make this process simpler.

[Denti]

No, EASA has actually not agreed to that. The only exceptions is for student pilots who did their exams in the UK prior to January 1st. Some local authorities do see that as a blanket approval to accept all exams, but that is actually not in agreement with EASA guidelines at this time. Local authorities do have a limited leeway in interpretation of rules, however those could be open to legal challenges, not that i see a huge chance of those.

Current EASA guideline is:

The UK CAA is developing a simplified application and validation procedure for recent holders of UK-issued Part FCL licenses. Does EASA plan to implement a similar application and validation procedure for recent holders of EASA licenses?

Source: UK CAA

For the time being, there is no plan to develop a simplified application and validation procedure. Accordingly, any validation or conversion of a UK issued license should be done in accordance with Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) No 2020/723