Worldwide Redundant Pilots-Smile Please

[fatbus]

I've been used as reference's several times in the last few months . All pilots I knew , some for flying jobs some not . I was never asked about the individuals flying skills . Pilots need to check their egos at the door , get over yourselves and move on . Harsh but needed!

[PilotLZ]

No reference will detail anyone's pilot skills because, first, a lot of that is subjective judgement, and, second, do you really want to take any unnecessary responsibility? If you say that X is an awesome pilot and he overshoots the runway tomorrow, can it be that the legal department will be after you because you gave an untrue description of his skills? On the contrary, if you write down that he was less than perfect and he doesn't get the job because of this, he can sue you for damage. That's why most references I've seen only contain plain and easy to confirm facts. Was employed from this date to this date in this capacity, flew that number of hours in his role, passed his last proficiency check on this date, had no formal investigations or disciplinary inquiries launched against him. That's about it.

And this is the very reason why lying about your background is not a good idea.

[nickler]

fatbus

Ego ? Move on ? Nobody here is saying that as pilots we deserve anything more than people working regular 9-5 ground jobs BUT I believe that as a group we are getting tired of getting our ax kicked every single time there is some sort of crisis in the world, whether it is a minor or major one like in this circumstance.

[Smooth Airperator]

So Your advice is to massively lie

Nope, me thinks you need to read what I wrote again.

[nickler]

Being a pilot employed by one or more airlines is not owning a transportation business unless you have done that as a second job while flying, which I doubt many of us did flying close to max FDP limits for years.

[Meester proach]

I can’t really do that - I’d have to fabricate 28 years or so and I’m not that good at being that slippery SO......
The saving grace is , I’ve been here before, therefore I always lived to about 35-40% of the salary - yeah so, I didn’t have a second home, flash car or boat but we were still relatively well off .

This means I can live on the JRS , we can get jobs paying enough to continue ...don’t need much .

[Tartiflette Fan]

nicker

This really does read to me as if you continue to think that you are something special, and in this case specially disadvantaged and picked upon. Do you never read/listen to the news and learn about steel-workers, car-workers, oil-workers, ship-builders ( they do still exist ) even the military who have all been affected by world events leading to (often very big )job losses in the recent pre-covid past ?

[Meester proach]

I’m sure he’s aware , but this is not the “ Tata steel workers rumour network “ nor the “ esso roughnecks rumour network “, which is why we tend to concentrate on pilot problems .

We are not a special case, but work in one of those industries very prone to massive boom/ bust cycles.

[nickler]

Tartiflette Fan

This really does read to me you are not following the thread. Somebody was stating you should “adjust” your resume if you’re looking for a job outside aviation. I was pointing out it’s hard to hide 20+ years spent in the flight deck as you can’t just make up a job you’ve never done.

[Tartiflette Fan]

I disagree about being in a very "prone" industry. You are in the middle, but have a huge degree of entitlement which finds its expression in threads like this..

[nickler]

It's funny how there seems to be a few user who joined right about at the same time (April 2020) and the majority of their forum activity is to diminish our (former?) pilot jobs by repeating we are not special, we have been overpaid for years and mine workers have a tougher life than us.
So habibis first of all you are in a forum dedicated to aviation professionals and I believe the vast majority of us is proud to be or to have been employed in this sector. Second point is I am proud, yes PROUD, of my job as an airline pilot for the last 25 years. So if You have got nothing better to do, and decided to join pprune right in the middle of the pandemic mess to freak around with serious professionals who have always put their heart in their activities, then I believe it is about time You start considering some more productive ways of spending your not so valuable time.

[PilotLZ]

Many find comfort in denigrating aviation just because they didn't get what they wanted out of it for whatever reason. Many of those are wannabes who have never had any pilot job. Some are disgruntled experienced pilots. The common denominator of all of them is that they feel better about themselves when pointing out other people's choices as "wrong" (without suggesting any better course of action) and when trying to convince themselves that there was nothing worth fighting for by trying to convince others therein.

[Lucifer786]

Negativity aside, what’s the educated ( and as optimistic as possible pls) prognosis for Jan 2021 for global aviation in terms of routes flown, passenger loads and recruitment patterns.
Would make for some interesting thoughts …🤔

[PilotLZ]

I don't know for sure about global, but the Eurocontrol forecast for Europe until March says that, with the current state of affairs, traffic numbers will stay at about 40-50% of 2019 levels for the coming 6 months. Obviously, this can be reviewed in either direction at any time. The next EC meeting on border reopening is on 13 October, if memory serves me well. Obviously, the EC is advising in favour of a more unified approach than now that could aid travel recovery, but it remains to be seen how willing to take part the national governments will be.

If you ask me, the optimistic scenario is some more significant movement towards spring 2021, hopefully followed by a summer that will be better than summer 2020. Whether that will be achieved through the natural course of the pandemic, through a vaccine, through cheap and easy testing or through a combination of those - we can only guess for now.

[nickler]

I totally agree with PLZ comments above. As of now it’s plain uncharted territory, any guess is purely a crystal ball exercise. My opinion based on what I can read from an aviation and medical point of view is that the second half of 2021 will most likely be the period we are going to start to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and from there on a slow and hopefully constant climb will be possibile. I can’t see any recruitment (I mean classic recruitment, not the 2/3 pilots getting in being friends of friends) coming up before spring 2022 and I am afraid I am damned optimistic.

[PilotLZ]

Good point, nickler. There's indeed a difference between hiring and recruitment. Hiring is happening even as we speak, however dire the situation now. But recruitment, defined as a proactive search for employees on part of a company, will not be happening on any significant scale this year or next year. Why? Because most DFOs already have a list of people to call whenever someone needs to be hired. Those might be pilots made redundant by the same operator earlier on, acquaintances returning from the Middle East, people who have worked for the operator at some past point and have demonstrated a good track record etc. They will inevitably have priority over any external applicant.

With this in mind, my piece of advice for those looking for a job is - don't leave unchecked any opportunity to return to a place where you have previously worked, whether that was 1, 3 or 5 years ago. As long as you left on good terms, that's where your chances are higher than anywhere else. When vacancies are few and far between, those who are already known to the right people and have proven their worth are usually considered first.

[Lucifer786]

Prophetic words there PilotLZ and Nickler.
Sadly, but most probably, recruitment drives may not really be seen until mid next year. If even that. Hiring of course goes on with the need of the hour.
I personally feel that a vaccine would be a game changer. Not just for aviation but also for the overall economy as a whole.
Will be the first baby step towards the giant leap forwards. Fingers crossed !

[DuneMentat]

Problem is putting too much faith in the vaccine. They still don't know the efficacy or how long it's going to protect. At the moment they are happy to just get a 50% efficacy out of the vaccines so even if 100% of the population is vaccinated only 50% will be protected (we can then hope the other 50% will get a milder run if they do get infected). How long is it going to be before everyone is vaccinated? will it be a requirement to fly? Even with my most optimistic glasses on I can't see any meaningful recovery of aviation this side of summer 2021 and possibly well into '22.

[Ancient Observer]

Aviation has grown at c 6% per annum since the 50s. There have been bumps in this, and some huge bumps - 9/11 and later the financial crunch, with Lehman's demise at its peak are the 2 most recent big bumps.
During/after the big bumps, lots of gurus said "it will never be the same again".

After the bumps, Aviation continued to grow at its normal rate.

However, this Wuhan virus is an even bigger bump. Will Aviation recover? Yes. And the old growth rates will resume. ...................As long as some of the Majors can survive a year or so of very limited cash generation.

So, my optimistic spin is that by 2022, Aviation will be growing strongly again.

[PilotLZ]

"It's never going to be the same as in 2019", many of the doom and gloom merchants say. And that's a matter of fact. Just as in 2019 it was not quite the same as in 2018 and in 2018 it was not the same as in 2017. The world is constantly changing. Think about all the companies that vanished since 2015, all the new ones which were created and the changes in fleet types and numbers, destinations and whatnot else in all those which lived through this entire 5-year period. Which ones of the existing companies will make it through the next 5 years, what will they look like and what will the newly found players be like remains to be seen. Some tails will get repainted, that's for sure. Some will do better than others. But, on the grand scheme of things, mass air travel will still be there and growing - it will just have some chairs reshuffled, as it has always been.