Worldwide Redundant Pilots-Smile Please
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Do you reckon that anyone has the financial means to pay to fly or work for free as a FO for what is on average 5-7 years until command? Or are we going to see destitute homeless beggars living in the gutter flying planes and washing their uniforms in the nearby river? A bit difficult to believe, even with all the relentless doom and gloom banging on 24/7.
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When you run the numbers, P2F is the most exaggerated thing pilots get annoyed about. It just doesn't happen on the scale people think. WizzAir have slave contracts but it's not quite P2F. SmartLynx and Avion Express are the only companies where 10-20% of new FO recruits regularly come via this path but all are gainfully employed the next year on full salary - in any case, that's Eastern Europe for you and dare I say it, (incoming missiles!) if Brexit is done properly, not something for Brits to worry about anymore when competing for jobs at home. EasyJet had a very brief affair with the concept in 08/09 with approx 15 cadets getting through and people are still harping on about it till this day. If you think I'm wrong, give me some other examples of sizeable airlines who have practiced P2F recently (small, dodgy Cambodian operators don't count).
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Future Rodney King
That's an entirely sensible course of action and I won't fly for those sorts of salaries either. The fact remains though that for everyone who says "no" there'll be many more who will sign whatever is put in front of them.
I think it's very likely that we will see a situation where FOs will work second and third jobs so that they can pay for their aviation "career".
That's an entirely sensible course of action and I won't fly for those sorts of salaries either. The fact remains though that for everyone who says "no" there'll be many more who will sign whatever is put in front of them.
Do you reckon that anyone has the financial means to pay to fly or work for free as a FO for what is on average 5-7 years until command? Or are we going to see destitute homeless beggars living in the gutter flying planes and washing their uniforms in the nearby river? A bit difficult to believe, even with all the relentless doom and gloom banging on 24/7.
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I'm no fortune teller and I'm totally happy with any opinions different from mine - but still, the latter would be interesting to see with those flying close to 900 hours per year at a LCC. Good luck combining that even with a 20-hour-per-week, student-type job. Even if that's technically possible on a week of 5 or 6 earlies, the brave volunteer giving it a shot won't last for long.
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Future Rodney King
Trouble is, in the global market we operate in, there are people out there, from outwith Western Europe/USA who will work for these numbers. I bet Wizz is not short of FO hopefuls for their £12600/yr offering. When the dust settles on this Covid business a whole new world awaits.
Trouble is, in the global market we operate in, there are people out there, from outwith Western Europe/USA who will work for these numbers. I bet Wizz is not short of FO hopefuls for their £12600/yr offering. When the dust settles on this Covid business a whole new world awaits.
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The hopefuls for the magenta offer mostly fall into two groups - locals for whom that would still be a decent offer given what else is otherwise available in their countries (spoiler - it makes Wizz look like paradise) and those desperate for any flying job. The former category is not much of a competition to the average Western European, American, Canadian or Australian pilot as most of those would be looking either into opportunities within their own countries or into the more stereotypically expat (and far better paid) jobs in Asia. The size of the latter category is inversely proportional to the number of opportunities out there, i.e. most of them will happily forget about the magenta brigade the very moment they see anything better suited to them. As the overall situation in the market now is about as far from good as it could be, it surely won't be pretty for a while. But in another couple of years things will likely look a lot different. Until the next big crisis which will inevitably happen.
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Contact Approach
You mean the quality of rest You get by being jobless and not knowing when and IF You will step in a flight deck again and will have to possibly reinvent yourself in a complete different industrie starting from the bottom of the food chain ?
You mean the quality of rest You get by being jobless and not knowing when and IF You will step in a flight deck again and will have to possibly reinvent yourself in a complete different industrie starting from the bottom of the food chain ?
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bringbackthe80s
Agree.
All the BS going on about transferable skills and so on... all those crew coaches trying to hook you up to show you your "real potential" and crap like that.
The vast majority of my former colleagues who lost their pilots jobs and do not have the time to wait for something better to come are working as Tesco drivers or Uber.
Maybe they need to find their real potential.
Agree.
All the BS going on about transferable skills and so on... all those crew coaches trying to hook you up to show you your "real potential" and crap like that.
The vast majority of my former colleagues who lost their pilots jobs and do not have the time to wait for something better to come are working as Tesco drivers or Uber.
Maybe they need to find their real potential.
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To find any semblance of "real potential" in another industry, you need to commit to it for a good number of years, put a lot of effort into learning (because non-technical skills are essential but without the technical ones you're no professional in anything) and gain experience, starting from the bottom of the ladder. I.e. reinvent yourself completely, which has to start with accepting that aviation is now history for you and you're not coming back into it ever again.
In the end of the day, that's not what the majority of redundant pilots want. At least two thirds of them intend on coming back into flying as soon as given the chance. Hence the "survival" jobs driving delivery vans etc. That's all their current qualification allows for under the circumstances - and getting another one now is only worthwhile if you intend on sticking with it long-term. Spending 2-3 years in misery retraining onto something else, only to bin it and go back into flying right after, hardly makes sense long-term.
In the end of the day, that's not what the majority of redundant pilots want. At least two thirds of them intend on coming back into flying as soon as given the chance. Hence the "survival" jobs driving delivery vans etc. That's all their current qualification allows for under the circumstances - and getting another one now is only worthwhile if you intend on sticking with it long-term. Spending 2-3 years in misery retraining onto something else, only to bin it and go back into flying right after, hardly makes sense long-term.
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nickler
That’s the problem - if you have a CV with your airline experience on it you’ll get turned down by anyone looking for permanent staff doing anything , as rightly so they know you’ll disappear as and when things improve
Your only real chance for a quick few quid is zero hours stuff in logistics or such like , as depressing a thought as that is.
Or if you are ex - RAF become a after dinner / motivational speaker as it appears 75% do for some reason
That’s the problem - if you have a CV with your airline experience on it you’ll get turned down by anyone looking for permanent staff doing anything , as rightly so they know you’ll disappear as and when things improve
Your only real chance for a quick few quid is zero hours stuff in logistics or such like , as depressing a thought as that is.
Or if you are ex - RAF become a after dinner / motivational speaker as it appears 75% do for some reason
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Agreed. Again, it's either a not-so-plush job until things improve OR a complete career change forever. In the latter case, you will be able to convince a decent employer to hire you because, having committed to a career change with all the associated efforts and expenditure, you'll appear unlikely to bolt in the very moment any airline starts hiring. Otherwise, focus your search on jobs which have a high staff turnaround in any times. Call centres, supermarkets and many other places are looking for staff all the time because nobody treats this sort of job as anything long-term.
If neither of those two options looks appealing, the third one is working for yourself. But, again, this requires qualification and experience which might or might not be worth getting if you still haven't got them. Examples of that kind of jobs are tradesman, driving instructor, tutor, maybe also financial advisor or marriage counsellor (both very well suited to the average pilot). Depends on what you can do and have done outside of the flight deck.
If neither of those two options looks appealing, the third one is working for yourself. But, again, this requires qualification and experience which might or might not be worth getting if you still haven't got them. Examples of that kind of jobs are tradesman, driving instructor, tutor, maybe also financial advisor or marriage counsellor (both very well suited to the average pilot). Depends on what you can do and have done outside of the flight deck.
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I agree with your theories, the point is -at least for me- that it’s really though to decide to give up an aviation career because of something that is so crazy like this pandemic. It is also worth mentioning that it is unlikely that any new career started in your mid 40s will pay you enough to keep flying on week ends at your local flying club, unless you are single with no mortgages and expenses.
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Free bit of advice and you probably won't hear it from anywhere else. In a global pandemic situation, upfront honesty is not always going to be the best policy. This is a fight for survival in many cases. Remove any mention of your flying experience and details of your license from your CV. Your aviation CV is for aviation jobs and nothing more. I'm sure there's many of you out there whose situation is becoming dire and even after selling the car at a massive loss and putting down the pets, you'll be seeing the need to substantially readjust and downsize your lifestyles in order to survive on a Delivery Driver wage. I'm sorry, but I'd rather conceal the truth before I lose everything I have, but that's just me with my flakey principles in the face of adversity. Be bold, convert that 15 years of piloting into 'Business Owner running a transportation business'. Help yourself to get a better job. Don't lend yourselves to being judged or you will suffer.
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So Your advice is to massively lie about what you have done so far in your life ? How far do you think that will get you ?
If you have been running a transportation business for 15/20 years and nobody knows anything about it then it also means it was a crappy service.
Come on...
If you have been running a transportation business for 15/20 years and nobody knows anything about it then it also means it was a crappy service.
Come on...
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The problem is, you're often required to provide some form of records or references proving your previous employment. If it was otherwise, everyone could make up whatever "employment history" they feel is most appropriate for the job. Employers often do some form of vetting on their candidates without telling them - and, if it turns out that you've been grossly dishonest in the application form, this can bite your lower back a lot worse than the fact that you have spent X years flying for an airline.