Worldwide Redundant Pilots-Smile Please
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Luton
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You’re not in a terrible position really. You’ve weathered a similar storm before and b. You seem to have heavy experience on the only jet that I foresee will make the quickest comeback. SE Asia, ME and Far East carriers are/will soon be looking for experienced aircrews to crew their domestic flights. I see it uphill all the way from there on.
All the very best my friend. We all need Lady Luck these days more than ever before.
All the very best my friend. We all need Lady Luck these days more than ever before.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Luton
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More interested in how that ‘experienced’ pilot will keep himself current and interested in that potential job vacancy 1-2 years hence.
Recency and currency is once again going to be an issue if not well regulated.
Recency and currency is once again going to be an issue if not well regulated.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LorisBatacchi
You haven't lost your chances for a command. That Airbus FO experience will come in very handy. Maybe not exactly where you imagined, but somewhere there will be an opportunity for an upgrade. If I understand correctly, you still have 15-20 years of working life to age 65 - and that's not little by all measures.
You haven't lost your chances for a command. That Airbus FO experience will come in very handy. Maybe not exactly where you imagined, but somewhere there will be an opportunity for an upgrade. If I understand correctly, you still have 15-20 years of working life to age 65 - and that's not little by all measures.
More interested in how that ‘experienced’ pilot will keep himself current and interested in that potential job vacancy 1-2 years hence.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting times ahead, I think. There is a good number of pilots aged 55+ around me who are taking their pensions and calling it a day, quite often without having been made redundant. Some are concerned with the immediate situation (i.e. being in an above-average risk age group and having to go through crammed airport terminals, aeroplanes, hotels etc). Others were already tired of it and waiting for the moment to pull out and enjoy retirement. Many younger guys also looking into alternative careers. So, it might as well be that a couple of years after the mother of all crises we'll see the mother of all shortages.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: europe
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well i’ve had a bad back for approx 7 years, tried every treatment under the sun to no avail. Guess what, time off with covid and it’s 100%, no sitting in the seat for hours on end plus the drive to work. Every cloud...
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Best of luck folks. I’m scared what there may be to return to - with things like the $400 a month offer from rishworth / Vietnam. Simply won’t be worth going to the other side of the world when you can get the same money in your local McDonald’s .
I’m sure demand will return eventually , it’s crisis management until then
I’m sure demand will return eventually , it’s crisis management until then
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Dubai, once... now London
Age: 49
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree.
Unfortunately I guess there is not much to smile for. When airlines will restart somehow to hire, there will be a huge supply excess and it does not take fancy economists to realize that oversupply will lead to ridiculous terms&conditions.
Many of us will have no recent flights over the past 2+ years and will accept anything to add a few fresh hours in the logbooks. Apparently some operators are already studying this project, and could eventually end up offering some "return to work" offers for all levels of experience, where You basically fly for free, be it as a Captain or F/O, just to get Your currency back. Multiply that for hundreds of unemployed pilots and You can easily end up covering an almost normal 2022 summer season for peanuts.
Unfortunately I guess there is not much to smile for. When airlines will restart somehow to hire, there will be a huge supply excess and it does not take fancy economists to realize that oversupply will lead to ridiculous terms&conditions.
Many of us will have no recent flights over the past 2+ years and will accept anything to add a few fresh hours in the logbooks. Apparently some operators are already studying this project, and could eventually end up offering some "return to work" offers for all levels of experience, where You basically fly for free, be it as a Captain or F/O, just to get Your currency back. Multiply that for hundreds of unemployed pilots and You can easily end up covering an almost normal 2022 summer season for peanuts.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Luton
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Borders
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It takes an extraordinary level of delusion to think that Ts&Cs will ever get back towards the pre-covid norms. I predict that within three years we'll see A320/737 captains in the UK being paid in the region of £35-40k with zero benefits on temporary or part year seasonal contracts. FOs will be on a mix of pay to fly, fly for free and zero hours/ minimum wage contracts.
Airline management will continue to find new ways to reach that elusive bottom of the barrel. The mere fact that VNA are offering to pay trainers anything at all, rather than demanding that they pay for the privilege of working for them shows that there's still a way to go before the bottom is reached.
Airline management will continue to find new ways to reach that elusive bottom of the barrel. The mere fact that VNA are offering to pay trainers anything at all, rather than demanding that they pay for the privilege of working for them shows that there's still a way to go before the bottom is reached.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As stated , in what you quoted ! Are you applying ? I’m sure they’ll be a few.
Maybe if you live in VN, and have nothing to do, it’s for you.
I’m not flying for nothing, and I’m certainly not flying for nothing 1000s of miles away from home. This is not hours building when I was 19. I could fly for reduced salary , but they’ll have to be cast iron guarantees we will be back to a sensible wage when things pick up.
Unfortuntely , they’ll always be halfwits who probably will.
Maybe if you live in VN, and have nothing to do, it’s for you.
I’m not flying for nothing, and I’m certainly not flying for nothing 1000s of miles away from home. This is not hours building when I was 19. I could fly for reduced salary , but they’ll have to be cast iron guarantees we will be back to a sensible wage when things pick up.
Unfortuntely , they’ll always be halfwits who probably will.
Good grief guy. You need to take a very chilled pill. Who on earth is going to spend €70-100k to qualify for a position that is capped at that kind of money? As a Southerner, you need to earn 50k just to make ends meet and run a 3 bed house.
There's a little thing called supply vs demand and right now it's working in the favour of the slave masters, it won't be for long.
There's a little thing called supply vs demand and right now it's working in the favour of the slave masters, it won't be for long.
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I completely agree. Something which I very much hope that people will find somewhat comforting is that there's a difference between a momentary condition and a sustainable one. Offering $400 per month, some Mickey Mouse hourly pay and no other benefits to a TRI who took at least 7-8 years to reach that level (more like 10 if we assume 2 years of initial training, the A320 being their first and only type and no prolonged gaps in employment) is simply not sustainable long-term. To be able to "afford" such a job, you need a secondary source of income because you will never, ever be able to cover even the absolute necessities on this income. And, if you have a strong secondary source of income, why would you be instructing in Vietnam under the full civil and criminal responsibility of a Training Captain? So, such practices will not be around for long, rest assured.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good grief guy. You need to take a very chilled pill. Who on earth is going to spend €70-100k to qualify for a position that is capped at that kind of money? As a Southerner, you need to earn 50k just to make ends meet and run a 3 bed house.
There's a little thing called supply vs demand and right now it's working in the favour of the slave masters, it won't be for long.
There's a little thing called supply vs demand and right now it's working in the favour of the slave masters, it won't be for long.
Are you referring to me ? I’m very chilled, thank you for Asking , but I’ve been in aviation a long time and am slightly cynical .
I’m not sure what your point is - people have paid that sort of money to train and ended up RHS Flybe dash8 for £30k ? Trust me , they’ll still be those who can find 100k , just so they can get a selfie with stripes on instragram.
Supply has ALWAYS exceeded demand in piloting. The only time I can think of it didn’t was about 1987 ( when a chimpanzee could have got an FO slot ) and in a few recent years - but that boils down to right experience , right type rating , etc.
If you hadn’t noticed even the airlines with great cash reserves are making a land grab for TCs off their crews - and you can bet they won’t be quick to reinstate them after all this unless it’s written legally and binding.
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Borders
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MonarchOrBust
It's already been proven that there's a market for paying to fly at all levels. A while ago, Eaglejet were offering the chance to fly 500 hours as PIC on the 747 for something like $50k. The requirements for that "job" were pretty much the same as you'd expect for a standard DEC position (significant wide body command time required). They wouldn't have been advertising it if there wasn't a market for it.
Regardless of the salaries on offer, starry-eyed kids will still be lining up to fork over mortgage-sized sums for training, so that they can post pictures on Instagram and Facebook, resplendent in their two stripes and aviators. Flying is highly vocational; people will want to do it regardless of earning potential. People will take on second or third jobs just so that they can fly. It's a minor miracle that salaries have remained as high as they have for as long as they have. Any de-skilled job with an incredibly low academic bar to entry is obviously not going to attract a high salary. That is the cold reality of the situation.
The only way the slide could have been arrested is through strong and aggressive unionisation. You just have to look at the salaries and benefits enjoyed by train/ tube drivers to see the power of 100% union membership and the willingness to go on strike to curb management excesses.
It's already been proven that there's a market for paying to fly at all levels. A while ago, Eaglejet were offering the chance to fly 500 hours as PIC on the 747 for something like $50k. The requirements for that "job" were pretty much the same as you'd expect for a standard DEC position (significant wide body command time required). They wouldn't have been advertising it if there wasn't a market for it.
Regardless of the salaries on offer, starry-eyed kids will still be lining up to fork over mortgage-sized sums for training, so that they can post pictures on Instagram and Facebook, resplendent in their two stripes and aviators. Flying is highly vocational; people will want to do it regardless of earning potential. People will take on second or third jobs just so that they can fly. It's a minor miracle that salaries have remained as high as they have for as long as they have. Any de-skilled job with an incredibly low academic bar to entry is obviously not going to attract a high salary. That is the cold reality of the situation.
The only way the slide could have been arrested is through strong and aggressive unionisation. You just have to look at the salaries and benefits enjoyed by train/ tube drivers to see the power of 100% union membership and the willingness to go on strike to curb management excesses.
Are you sure about that? For the last 20 years airline flying has been a subtle form of masochism. There will be a line quickly formed, ready to take their "punishment". A few sly ones will see that bizjets were not so bad after all and change their opinion of what constitutes "quality" aviation. I suspect 99% will be rightly told to "jog on".
