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What for British pilots, after Brexit? (v2)

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What for British pilots, after Brexit? (v2)

Old 26th Jun 2020, 09:23
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Well, the situation is now fundamentally different than it was during the Article 50 period. Article 50 in itself provided a very easy solution to extend the original two years. The UK has left the EU, it is now a third country, albeit with a time limited special status. And that special status is defined by an internationally binding agreement. To change that agreements and its contents, including the deadlines for extension, it would have to be renegotiated completely anew. And at the end all EU parliaments would have to ratify it, which in itself takes at least 4 to 5 months and could be scuppered by regional parliaments like Wallonia. Not to mention, of course the EU would ask even more of the UK than it did last time. So yes, technically an extension might be possible, but not very easily so.

That said, if i remember correctly from the discussions about license transfer in case of a hard brexit, it should be enough to start the transfer before the transition period ends, but not complete it. However, you should enquire with the involved authorities.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:04
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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If you want to go that path ... why not now, what would you loose by waiting?
That said, I tend to agree with Denti. I am not sure about hard Brexit but in previous cases (e.g. National -> JAA, JAA -> EASA) the date of application was relevant.
However you shouldn't risk submitting an incomplete application ...
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:31
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Denti

Thanks for your thoughts. In legal terms you are absolutely right. But when it comes to bending rules and show flexibility we know how the EU works. I’m convinced that the EU would welcome an extension to avoid a no deal scenario. I wouldn’t see anyone opposing to that as long as the terms and conditions remained the same. However they won’t give up on their red lines which they will maintain no matter what. On the other hand I think the UK government knows this and is quite confident that if they push it to the very end they might get some concessions, but still being able to ask for an extension if needed. As I said before there hasn’t been any substantial preparation on the UK’s side in contrast to the EU who has already an established system to deal with countries outside the single market. Having diverted all the resources towards Corona will make it impossible to avoid serious disruption to the supply chains. Even the biggest hardliner will get very uncomfortable the closer we get to final stage. I could be wrong of course...
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:37
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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BDAttitude

I’m employed for the moment, but unlikely to be for much longer. Depending on the outcome there might be recalls in the future. And for that reason it would make sense to keep a UK license. On the other hand if that wasn’t to be the case holding EASA license would give me more opportunities across Europe...
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 10:56
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, the coming years are going to be tough for us all.

That said, you need to have the right to live and work in the EU as well, if you have an EU passport, that is easily done though.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 06:42
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Considering the recent awful news from Easyjet. And specifically the closing of three reasonably substantial UK bases and the subsequent news that the Airline will continue to sell tickets for flights out of the unlucky three bases. Then it would be interesting to see where the jets that operate these flights originate from. Or to be more specific which AOC they sit beneath.

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, possibly not even in the right forest,,, but it will be interesting to see how EZY reset from their recent bad news announcement. Undoubted a healthy company who will be looking to make a strong recovery but it will be interesting to note how many jobs/bases/jets remain in the UK and if there has been any shifting of balance to their arm on the continent.

Having the right to work on the continent could well be very fortuitous for those able to maintain it. Good luck.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 17:19
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps I dont know how to best frame this but we (pilots, cabin crew, engineers, BALPA, and the UK aviation industry in general) need to start doing something now to ensure airlines do not set up elaborate UK inbound routes that totally bypass the UK workforce. The British fare paying public should be contributing to the British economy and employment needs. A no deal Brexit is highly likely right now and is exactly what they wanted but I simply do not trust these morons to protect out jobs in the future. Write to your MPs now so they can keep visibility of the matter before it becomes too late.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 17:47
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Could you please clarify who wanted a no-deal Brexit? "Fare paying public" or the Conservative Party?
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 17:56
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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The current Tory government, of course
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 18:01
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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It's hardly an elaborate workaround for a multi-national airline to set up an EU AOC and EU bases, to be able to both operate on UK-EU routes, AND EU-EU routes, which they couldn't do with a UK AOC.

Sad, but inevitable. I had a colleague who was a staunch Brexiteer, and joined easyJet LGW a couple of years ago, and now will probably be made redundant if indeed, pilot jobs do migrate to the EU. Turkey voting for Christmas!
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 18:22
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Obviously, as an EASA licence holder and an employee of a pan-European company he knew what he voted for!
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 20:41
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Let's not kid ourselves. No one ever really knows what they're voting for.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 21:40
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Which is why a lot of us who practice safety for a living, like to stick to the safe option.

Without a deal (a very real possibility), British pilots have effectively reduced their job prospects from a market of 450 million people by a factor of 7 to just 65 million. If (for example) the UK becomes a real basket case, many of us will be screwed. I've got friends that were recently made redundant here, that were vehemently pro-brexit, currently doing assessments over in Europe for jobs based there.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 21:43
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe, but in my experience "we" in this line of work pride ourselves on being a fairly switched on bunch and for example pride ourselves on using professional tools to deal with issues such as Threats, error management, problem solving...... etc ...

I'd suggest any professional pilot based in the UK working for a pan-European operator who had listened to some the statements made by some politicians prior to Brexit should hopefully have actually given some thought about everything that was being said, and should then also spent time looking at how the EU and freedom of movement for work purposes actually functioned.

If they did that they should have recognised that there were very definitely risks to them associated to Brexit. Now If they had then run a personal "BRAN" on the issue and felt that the B outweighed the R then fair enough ...but they should at least have done the analysis.

TBF we don't know don't yet know how this will finally unravel on 1st Jan 21.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 23:23
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps these unemployed pilots were looking at the big picture and decided that on balance that Brexit would be better for the country at the expense of their own career opportunities? Hard to believe, I’m sure. I don’t believe anybody voted thinking about what was best for the country, merely what was best for them . After all, if we voted for the best interests of the country, we probably wouldn’t vote for any political parties, and would stick all the independents in. One thing for sure, 2021 is gonna be a hell of a year!
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Old 3rd Jul 2020, 00:51
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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wiggy

It's like taking a shortcut through a thunderstorm! Might be alright, but who knows?

We will indeed see, but COVID has surely been the un-doing for our negotiating position. We could have had a position of strength with a Merkel-esque record on COVID, but now it's surely going to be a damage limitation exercise from both parties. The non-EU countries around the world will hardly think of the current British government as an intellectual powerhouse, a force to be reckoned with due to their handling of this crisis, and an obvious positive partner for the future. Look at the quarantine fiasco for starters. There are things they have done right, I'm not denying that, but there are so many things that were glaringly wrong. Lockdown was inevitable, most of us came to that conclusion a few weeks before Boris, but he dragged his heels in political moves with the scientists. The economy has been damaged to the same extent as elsewhere and his delay in responding has simply delayed the unlocking of the country.

hunterboy

2016??? What unemployed pilots?
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Old 3rd Jul 2020, 07:02
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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I transferred my UK license to Ireland to maintain an EASA license and at the same time, I had a UK national license issue and maintain a UK CAA medical.

When the U.K issued my UK national license they wouldn't put on any EASA ratings onto the license until after the transition. So next year, I will do the license match to get all ratings on the UK. At least having both UK and EASA licenses in the current climate, everything will be covered.

The other issue is the right to work in Europe, this might become an issue for UK citizens being based in Europe.

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Old 3rd Jul 2020, 08:39
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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giggitygiggity

Remember, he's an expat, not a EU migrant
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Old 3rd Jul 2020, 09:26
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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hunterboy

I voted to leave with the full knowledge that it could have serious consequences for my job in at least the short to medium term, and could result in me having to find another career. I was more than happy to take that personal risk because I despise the EU and firmly believe that the UK is far better off out of it.

I hope that we see some proper protectionism. British jobs for British workers, including pilots. Losing the right to live and work in the EU doesn't make any difference to me because I'd happily leave flying before I consider working abroad.
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Old 3rd Jul 2020, 10:02
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
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Surely Brexit has nothing to do with where you find work. I worked in Vietnam and UAE. I am not aware that they had a say in how our welfare system works or other matters of state. "Not my fault." says the Government. "It is because of UAE Directive 32782/12 that we have to revoke your loicense."
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