IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

[richardwpprn]

My guess is if the Airbus narrow body fleet needs crews, they’ll get offered opportunities.

[Ancient Observer]

Given that BA have, as 3 greens put it, moved to implementation stage, I am most unclear why, and about what, BA would negotiate with BASSA.
I am also very unclear about who BASSA now represent..................given that they have represented no-one for the last few weeks.

[richardwpprn]

One or more of their members may have cancelled their subs.

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by PC767

No we haven’t had that one and nor shall we. Nobody from unite/bassa is suggesting that things are rosy, the current situation is dire and required decisive action, in March.

And yet upthread, at the start of this particular exchange, your very first words were: "IAG do not wish to save money".

So do you think the situation is now improved, and that now there is no need for them to "save money" as you put it?

I'll happily agree with you that the company's attitude to all of it's staff, not just the legacy fleets, may well have been "sub-optimal", especially in the light of the fact that it didn't really reward the work staff put in over previous years that led to record profits, but the financial outlook now is looking even worse than it was in the spring - IMVHO you're misleading yourself if you suddenly think there's now no need to save money....

[autothrottle]

PC, are you saying that BA are now working with BASSA/Unite on reemploying those CC that took VR or who were CR? Are Unite saying that the changes to contracts are likely to be temporary and when traffic recovers, they will revert back to old ‘legacy’ contracts?

[Whitemonk Returns]

It's far beyond that stage, CC long haul who were made redundant were last week 'selected' to rejoin on the new mixed fleet contract. Lucky them, lower pay and totally screws up their childcare.

[3Greens]

i don’t think “childcare” features too prominently when trying to save a business. As harsh as it sounds, it’s not a housewives club.

[TURIN]

Originally Posted by 3Greens

Have I misunderstood? BA Have moved to the implementation stage because bassa&UNITE refused to engage. There is to be no further negotiations. BA have set out their proposals on ONE and offers of employment have been sent out to those crew who didn’t take VR and weren’t made CR. Are you now saying you think BA are going to sit and negotiate after 5months of waiting?

Unite have engaged with BA over the last 4 weeks on behalf of engineering and secured a reasonable solution which is many times better than the original BA proposal. The CR notices have been put on hold pending the results from a ballot currently taking place. Basically a 5% cut in basic pay for two years and a reduction of 3 days annual leave to mitigate CR.

So, yes, after many months of banging heads and poor relations between TU and management, it seems we have an accord.

[autothrottle]

So not on the new contracts? Old contracts reinstated but with a 5% pay cut with loss of 3 days A/L? No 20% pay cuts or 40% for CSD’s? What a mess.

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by autothrottle

PC, are you saying that BA are now working with BASSA/Unite on reemploying those CC that took VR

Be interesting to know - I'm not hearing that suggested yet from my CC contacts...I am however hearing that their whole VR admin process seems to be somewhat struggling at the moment due to, amongst other things poor/slow/non existent provision of legal advice. As a result whilst many expressed an intent to leave ("pressed the button" in their parlance) I'm not sure how many CC can have been deemed to have actually left the company...

I'm now picking up talk/?rumour of significant periods of unpaid leave being on offer to CC but whether that is with a view to ultimately returning to some iteration of old style T&Cs, or they'd come back on "new fleet rules" seems to be an unknown as far as I can tell.

Glad to hear TURINs news....

[GS-Alpha]

Originally Posted by autothrottle

So not on the new contracts? Old contracts reinstated but with a 5% pay cut with loss of 3 days A/L? No 20% pay cuts or 40% for CSD’s? What a mess.

I have not yet come across any CSDs who work in engineering ;o)

[stormin norman]

TURIN

The amount of qualified/ experienced licenced Engineers that have left the industry recently is alarming . Its last group of people you want walking out of the door.

[bex88]

The cabin crew deal seems done and dusted. My crew yesterday were all ex mixed fleet. They were very happy to have a job, they were happy with the contract and had no interest in any IA. Sure it could be better but they seem fare more balanced.

Yesterday the place allocation was published. Long story short. FO 320 = loads of places at LHR, moderate vacancy Cap 320 LHR. Vacancies on 787,350 both status and 777 captain only. No 380 places.

LGW displaced pilots would be first in line to sweep up the airbus positions.

[autothrottle]

Indeed

Originally Posted by GS-Alpha

I have not yet come across any CSDs who work in engineering ;o)

obviously I was referring to the Cabin Crew getting something off the back of a renegotiation with engineers. Whichever way you look at it, it’s a shambles.

[Ancient Observer]

Turin was referring to Engineering.

BASSA have not engaged, so the omni shambles of VR and CR continues. Not aided by BASSA.

Have BA got any planes to run? One wonders................

[TURIN]

Originally Posted by stormin norman

The amount of qualified/ experienced licenced Engineers that have left the industry recently is alarming . Its last group of people you want walking out of the door.

When you look at the demographic, it was a very real risk. Many of the over 55s I spoke to were ready to call it a day, draw the pension and take their chances rather than sign the new OCG contract, especially with the added 'pre nuptual agreement' to discourage any arbitration claims later.

Best of luck to all those still with an uncertain future.

[PC767]

Originally Posted by bex88

The cabin crew deal seems done and dusted. My crew yesterday were all ex mixed fleet. They were very happy to have a job, they were happy with the contract and had no interest in any IA. Sure it could be better but they seem fare more balanced..

MF crew haven’t had their contracts terminated and been presented with a devastating and permanent proposal. In fact MF have a pay rise and CSM less responsibilities as a result of the changes. CSMs no longer have teams to manage Andy administration responsibilities. Of course they seem happy. The issue is UNiTE negotiating for both MF and legacy is a conflict of interests. Former MF crew are the future growth, former legacy crew are in decline.

[RoyHudd]

Could someone qualified please enlighten us as to the cabin crew deal at BA with simple examples of old and new basic pay scales, along with allowances and agreed future terms?

[autothrottle]

Roy, I’m not sure you’ll get any takers on that one.

[PC767]

MF cabin crew no new deal per se, reasonable changes to contract. They do not have to agree to anything.
MF CSMs new agreement and contract as they move from A scale managers to cabin crew scales. No longer have teams to manage on the ground.

New proposal equals pay rise for MF.

Legacy CSDs, CSLs, Pursers and main crew have been given notice of termination of contract. Now on 90 days notice. Negotiations with unions current focused on mitigating compulsory redundancies and presenting options to retained crew to allow those with a CR notice to remain employed.

The dire proposal has yet to be subject to negotiation. Agreement has been reached that the new contract will have a 4 week trial period as per the Employment Rights Act 1996 during which crew can reject the employment as unsuitable and claim CR but no PILON.

No temporary measures, for whatever length of time, are being considered by BA.