IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs
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All the guys taking VR will be going with a pension, this global sum for each pilot has to be transferred out of the fund to pay for their pension. A glass wall transaction in effect Obviously this reduces the funds value, but at the same time reduces the funds liabilities NAPS has been in deficit with the Trustees expectation that BA had a number of years to make good.
This has not happened forcing BA to make emergency payments This will have been a major consideration in BA decision to offer a less than generous VR payments
This has not happened forcing BA to make emergency payments This will have been a major consideration in BA decision to offer a less than generous VR payments
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Walnut
I believe the pension is only safe when you reach the nominated age for drawing it, ie, 55 or 60.
No money is transferred out unless a member has used an IFA to request a CETV transfer.
The ‘pot’ stays with BA Pensions who are very good investors.
I believe the pension is only safe when you reach the nominated age for drawing it, ie, 55 or 60.
No money is transferred out unless a member has used an IFA to request a CETV transfer.
The ‘pot’ stays with BA Pensions who are very good investors.
Christopher Robin
Statuatory plus Pay In Lieu Of Notice (PILON).
That figure will depend on your age, how many years worked at different ages plus the notice period. Three months seem to be the norm here. Gov website has a calculator that will work it out for you. I was quite surprised that even though I have been in full time employment for forty years I hadn't hit the cap.
Statuatory plus Pay In Lieu Of Notice (PILON).
That figure will depend on your age, how many years worked at different ages plus the notice period. Three months seem to be the norm here. Gov website has a calculator that will work it out for you. I was quite surprised that even though I have been in full time employment for forty years I hadn't hit the cap.
Controversial, moi?
Jumpjim
So what is incorrect?
The compulsory redundancy pay, as I understand it, is the statutory minimum redundancy payment.
TURIN states that it is plus PILON. PILON is just that, payment instead of of working your notice period, which is not redundancy pay.
I believe my statement is correct that compulsory redundancy payment is the statutory minimum unless you know otherwise.
So what is incorrect?
The compulsory redundancy pay, as I understand it, is the statutory minimum redundancy payment.
TURIN states that it is plus PILON. PILON is just that, payment instead of of working your notice period, which is not redundancy pay.
I believe my statement is correct that compulsory redundancy payment is the statutory minimum unless you know otherwise.
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777JRM
I believe you are wrong when a person draws a pension either through early retirement eg ill health, NRA, or VR as is the case here the pension becomes crystallised. The money does indeed stay in the scheme BUT it is ring fenced, so if the scheme is in deficit as NAPS is then the employer has to make good the individuals shortfall. As I suspect the majority of the VR’s are over 55 and in NAPS, BA will have a cost here
One consideration is if BA folds and NAPS moves into the PPS, these pensions already in payment are protected fully, only any future index linking would be capped
if a person requests a CETA then the sum available will be reduced if a scheme is in deficit.
I believe you are wrong when a person draws a pension either through early retirement eg ill health, NRA, or VR as is the case here the pension becomes crystallised. The money does indeed stay in the scheme BUT it is ring fenced, so if the scheme is in deficit as NAPS is then the employer has to make good the individuals shortfall. As I suspect the majority of the VR’s are over 55 and in NAPS, BA will have a cost here
One consideration is if BA folds and NAPS moves into the PPS, these pensions already in payment are protected fully, only any future index linking would be capped
if a person requests a CETA then the sum available will be reduced if a scheme is in deficit.
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Lucky escape
Hard to know how to feel about all this collapse now.
Back in the days of FPP I almost got in, and am still pretty certain the deciding factor in my failure was being mid 30s and unmarried - as they specifically asked the question about whether working short hall from Gatwick would suit my young family.
The next year I didn't even get invited to the flight school assessment, which kind of suggests I scored a black mark.
Feels like a lucky reprieve now. Would almost certainly have just lost my job with a chunk of the training loan left to pay and be so out of date on my other world skill set as to be unemployable in the current environment.
Looks like those who keep their jobs will be on significantly lower salaries too - compounding the reduced salary bands when I was applying.
Funny how you think something was a disaster, then it turns out a lucky escape.
I also took great pleasure in posting what happened at the team game assessments here after the apparent black balling. Always wondered if they changed the hike through the US desert after that.
And now for those keeping their jobs in the current crisis, what next? If A350s have achieved fully autonomous flight, how long before passengers start to feel automation is safer than human pilots?
Hard to know how to feel about the collapse, but not hard to know how I'd feel about being in it.
Back in the days of FPP I almost got in, and am still pretty certain the deciding factor in my failure was being mid 30s and unmarried - as they specifically asked the question about whether working short hall from Gatwick would suit my young family.
The next year I didn't even get invited to the flight school assessment, which kind of suggests I scored a black mark.
Feels like a lucky reprieve now. Would almost certainly have just lost my job with a chunk of the training loan left to pay and be so out of date on my other world skill set as to be unemployable in the current environment.
Looks like those who keep their jobs will be on significantly lower salaries too - compounding the reduced salary bands when I was applying.
Funny how you think something was a disaster, then it turns out a lucky escape.
I also took great pleasure in posting what happened at the team game assessments here after the apparent black balling. Always wondered if they changed the hike through the US desert after that.
And now for those keeping their jobs in the current crisis, what next? If A350s have achieved fully autonomous flight, how long before passengers start to feel automation is safer than human pilots?
Hard to know how to feel about the collapse, but not hard to know how I'd feel about being in it.
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I believe that it is true that ill-health can trigger the pension before age 55.
I hear that, for an individual quote, CETVs have jumped nearly 30% in value since last year.
Apparently this is based on the future bond/gilt yields, and might encourage pilots to transfer out now, just in case BA does fold.
I hear that, for an individual quote, CETVs have jumped nearly 30% in value since last year.
Apparently this is based on the future bond/gilt yields, and might encourage pilots to transfer out now, just in case BA does fold.
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It’s also has under funding. as a major driver, if someone wants to leave then the money he takes out is what his individual share is of the scheme. If these numbers you quote are true then the scheme is in serious default
A pilot who takes VR which is accepted by BA could be making a wise decision as it’s BA making up the shortfall
With a few years to NRA or 60yrs then his pension is locked in
A pilot who takes VR which is accepted by BA could be making a wise decision as it’s BA making up the shortfall
With a few years to NRA or 60yrs then his pension is locked in
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VR update:
BA said people would be notified last week wether their VR would be granted or not.
That then changed to being notified this week.
It is now changed to be no later than 17th Aug, a mere two weeks notice of wether you will be flying a BA jet on 1st Sept or not.
BA said people would be notified last week wether their VR would be granted or not.
That then changed to being notified this week.
It is now changed to be no later than 17th Aug, a mere two weeks notice of wether you will be flying a BA jet on 1st Sept or not.
Surprised it hasn't been mentioned on this thread yet, as it is now out there in the public domain, but Len McCluskey, UNITE's Gen Sec, yesterday wrote to Alex Cruz, CEO at BA, and threatened industrial action:
Dear Alex,
I am in receipt of your email dated 26 July and I am both staggered and offended by your arrogance.
In the opening paragraph you state “it has taken this long for you to realise and accept this”. This reference infers that I am only now understanding the financial difficulties that British Airways face. How dare you suggest such a thing. I have attempted for months to try to get you to understand the need to treat your workers with respect and dignity and this is the only way to get through this pandemic together. It is your staff, not you, that have for many years, built the good name of British Airways and contributed billions of pounds to its profitability year on year.
Your decision to adopt a scorched earth strategy with a ‘Fire and Rehire’ approach was always despicable. You and your management team have dragged the good name of British Airways through the mud. Have you ever asked yourself why so many MPs from all parties, at the highest level, have condemned British Airways or why newspaper and media outlets have been appalled at your actions? Perhaps you don’t understand that the British sense of ‘Fair Play’ runs deep in the psyche of the British people.
I am advised that no sooner are certain issues on process agreed then the company management renege on them, it beggars the question as to who is running the show – so much so that it is my intention to seek meetings with Antonio Vazquez Romero and IAG.
Also, please don’t insult me by asking ”how many of my members I have spoken to?” When you know full well that you have received thousands of heartfelt emails from your staff that you have ignored and or deleted without even reading. My shop stewards and reps speak to members constantly, dealing with the stress, anxiety and heart ache caused by your management style and strategy. Instead of criticising Unite reps, you should actually listen to them, instead of pretending to do so in order that you can tick some consultative process box and you might, at long last, realise that the only way to have a lasting peace and avoid months/years of industrial unrest is to work with us to achieve an acceptable way forward.
You have now published a timetable to Fire and Rehire thousands of your workforce on 7 August, we will work every hour between now and then, to convince you not to do so.
You can take this letter as our commitment to do that. However, you can also take this an intention to defend our members by moving towards industrial action with immediate effect.
Yours sincerely,
Len McCluskey
General Secretary"
I am in receipt of your email dated 26 July and I am both staggered and offended by your arrogance.
In the opening paragraph you state “it has taken this long for you to realise and accept this”. This reference infers that I am only now understanding the financial difficulties that British Airways face. How dare you suggest such a thing. I have attempted for months to try to get you to understand the need to treat your workers with respect and dignity and this is the only way to get through this pandemic together. It is your staff, not you, that have for many years, built the good name of British Airways and contributed billions of pounds to its profitability year on year.
Your decision to adopt a scorched earth strategy with a ‘Fire and Rehire’ approach was always despicable. You and your management team have dragged the good name of British Airways through the mud. Have you ever asked yourself why so many MPs from all parties, at the highest level, have condemned British Airways or why newspaper and media outlets have been appalled at your actions? Perhaps you don’t understand that the British sense of ‘Fair Play’ runs deep in the psyche of the British people.
I am advised that no sooner are certain issues on process agreed then the company management renege on them, it beggars the question as to who is running the show – so much so that it is my intention to seek meetings with Antonio Vazquez Romero and IAG.
Also, please don’t insult me by asking ”how many of my members I have spoken to?” When you know full well that you have received thousands of heartfelt emails from your staff that you have ignored and or deleted without even reading. My shop stewards and reps speak to members constantly, dealing with the stress, anxiety and heart ache caused by your management style and strategy. Instead of criticising Unite reps, you should actually listen to them, instead of pretending to do so in order that you can tick some consultative process box and you might, at long last, realise that the only way to have a lasting peace and avoid months/years of industrial unrest is to work with us to achieve an acceptable way forward.
You have now published a timetable to Fire and Rehire thousands of your workforce on 7 August, we will work every hour between now and then, to convince you not to do so.
You can take this letter as our commitment to do that. However, you can also take this an intention to defend our members by moving towards industrial action with immediate effect.
Yours sincerely,
Len McCluskey
General Secretary"
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And yet, in the past, this kind of action has yielded results for them?
I remember when the pilots agreed to take a 2.61% pay cut, after the financial crisis I think, and some other groups managed to avoid it.
Remember WW saying ‘a reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations’.
I remember when the pilots agreed to take a 2.61% pay cut, after the financial crisis I think, and some other groups managed to avoid it.
Remember WW saying ‘a reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations’.
Permission to leave only confirmed by e-mail mid July.
Actual leaving instructions only e-mailed out end of last week.
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Its rapidly becoming the only choice available. BA’s actions are not about saving the company during Covid, there are about using Covid as cover to dramatically restructure the business and massively increase future profits/bonuses/dividends.
From my non-pilot point if view the enhanced VR is nothing more than CR + PILON + a few quid. There is no negotiating on T&Cs, just consultation on redundancy numbers. The intention is to fire and rehire from August 7th. Frankly the ‘new’ job isn’t worth having, financially, physically and morally.
I have been placed in a position, along with many other colleagues, of having little to lose but lots to maintain by taking action. Using Covid the smash T&Cs has been a huge mistake, it could potentially cost the business much more than was necessary.
BALPA recommended their deal. Where is it? When is the ballot? What has happened, is all not well?
From my non-pilot point if view the enhanced VR is nothing more than CR + PILON + a few quid. There is no negotiating on T&Cs, just consultation on redundancy numbers. The intention is to fire and rehire from August 7th. Frankly the ‘new’ job isn’t worth having, financially, physically and morally.
I have been placed in a position, along with many other colleagues, of having little to lose but lots to maintain by taking action. Using Covid the smash T&Cs has been a huge mistake, it could potentially cost the business much more than was necessary.
BALPA recommended their deal. Where is it? When is the ballot? What has happened, is all not well?
