IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

[TopBunk]

Apparently BA have announced by internal email this evening that the B747-400 fleet will not return to service.

A VERY sad day as a retired BA B747-400 captain.

[GS-Alpha]

Yes very sad. It has been pretty much inevitable since this all kicked off, but it is still sad to see it officially in black and white. It does say ‘subject to consultation’, whatever that means?

[TopBunk]

GS

I would think that the consultation is more about what happens to those on the fleet rather than the aircraft being brought back, unfortunately :cry

[GS-Alpha]

Yeah that’s what concerns me, as one of those on the fleet.

[TopBunk]

GS

My heartfelt thoughts and best wishes are with you and my former colleagues (and current friends) on the fleet.

[GS-Alpha]

Thanks TopBunk.

[Whitemonk Returns]

JOSHUA

Despite most of what you said being true (I'm almost 15 years younger than you if your published age is correct) it dosent change the fact that having a mortgage that high is a terrible idea, particularly as a pilot. I don't live in London so that helps but my total housing commitments (mortgage, elec etc) were about 25% of my FO take home salary and less than 20% of a Captain's. Now I can understand to some extent people taking a risk at BA both due to the 'job for life' thinking and also London house pricing but even something as simple as temporarily losing your medical could plunge you into immediate financial crisis, never mind long term furlough or losing your job, it's simply a really bad idea, as is now being demonstrated.

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by GS-Alpha

It does say ‘subject to consultation’, whatever that means?

I suspect/believe it's "consultation" with the lessors etc, though I wouldn't be completely surprised if some UNITE think they should have a say in whether BA should continue to operate them....

Not great that the e-mail went out at just before 2200 UK time.....

[hunterboy]

I think we have to be careful not to judge other people’s lifestyle choices and focus on the fact that nearly everybody lives up to their means. Most of my income goes on fast cars and fast women. The rest I just waste.
I think it is fair to say there will be many BA and non -BA staff that will suffer in the coming months and year as the redundancies wash through the economy. Unfortunately, unlike many of our EU partners, benefits are pitiful, the U.K. preferring a one size fits all basic safety net approach, rather than being able to draw on aid proportional to how much one has paid in. Let’s all try and have a bit more sympathy for our fellow citizens.

[NoelEvans]

Originally Posted by 3Greens

probably because anyone who did; would sound like a pompous tw@t.

Pompous to some.
Realistic to others.

Whitemonk Returns has got it spot on in his most recent post.

[NoelEvans]

Not great that the e-mail went out at just before 2200 UK time.....

BA seem to be experts at appalling timing. I worked for a BA owned subsidiary once, with BA managers. We were given drastic news (compulsory moves and for several of us demotion) the week before Christmas. "Contact your managers for more information" we were told. Could we contact those managers (all BA employees, who had the cushy safety net of going back to BA)? No, they were all on leave for Christmas.

[stormin norman]

When is it ever good timing ?

I think it will be back to the negotiating table for BALPA and the other Unions.

[TURIN]

Originally Posted by Whitemonk Returns

How has nobody mentioned that spending 50% of your basic income on your mortgage payments is terrible financial planning!?

1988. Interest went up to about 15.5%. My mortgage interest alone went up to about 110% of my total income! That was fun.

[wiggy]

Remember it well but mention double digit interest rates to the youth of today and you tend to get a "that can't happen", and TBF I suspect the politicians in the UK would somehow have to make sure it did not happen..for obvious reasons.

Anyhow, back to the timing of BA's e-mail..rumour has it the Press had the plan yesterday evening and so BA had to get the e-mail out..

[Jwscud]

If you were a cynic, you might suggest it was leaked by the press by the same people who were "forced" to put an email out at an industrially propitious time.

[3Greens]

Originally Posted by NoelEvans

Pompous to some.
Realistic to others.

Whitemonk Returns has got it spot on in his most recent post.

i didn’t say it was a good idea. just that if someone were to “point it out”; they’d sound like a...

[Uplinker]

Originally Posted by TURIN

1988. Interest went up to about 15.5%. My mortgage interest alone went up to about 110% of my total income! That was fun.

Ditto. I bought my first in 1984. 15% interest rate. Everyone said go for the absolute max you could afford. For my first few months I had no spare money and basically survived on baked potatoes from a large sack that cost me £2.50, an old fridge that cost me £5, and cheap, basic furniture from the 2nd hand furniture shop.

Things got better though. Eventually.

[bex88]

The whole VR thing. LH guys off 747 have been receiving approved VR. Some of the other fleets SH LHR and the above mentioned LH have been getting declined. This has been questioned and it was a no for exit in July/August but a deferral with the date to be confirmed. That would indicate that BA wants to get its house in order and then allow VR to go when they have them covered.

[NoelEvans]

Uplinker

We bought our first in early '88. Mortgage rate of 9.7%. "The lowest you'll ever see", we were told, "buy to the max you can afford". We cautiously bought a smaller house where the payments were 25% of my income, leaving spare for comfort. Then within a year those 15% interest rates hit everyone. Our 'spare' was gobbled up but we lived on. Everyone else was crying about 'negative equity' (I clearly remember an article in the 'Log' headed "For 'Negative Equity' read 'Debt'"). We had that house for 10 years and although it was far from 'palatial', everyone in the family remembers it fondly. Being able to weather through that era comfortably has been an excellent lesson in caution. I have earned 'more than an MP' for very few years of my career, but we have been very happy with what we have had. Especially right now.

Good luck everyone.

[Cloud1]

Originally Posted by Raph737

Flap80 must be a delight to fly with....Enjoys the benefits the union got him but had BA said 787’s to go, he’d be outside with a “BA betrayal” banner calling foul play.

Good luck to you guys, sounds like you need it with colleagues like that!
TUI is right now the best pilot gig in the UK hands down, great agreement by both parties.

There is quite a fundamental difference between TUI and BA. First of all, they have a much smaller fleet so are less affected by cutting back aircraft. They had planned a lot of leasing this summer which can be changed whereas BA simply have too many aircraft now. Those aircraft need trimming back and so do overheads. Additionally BA were already trying to scrabble together savings from the previous industrial action - a bit of a controversial topic - but many cost saving projects were under way to recoup a lot of loss accrued during that action. TUI didn’t have that financial burden.

Also TUI crew “types” are more streamlined and not full of complication which we see at BA (more so CC rather than FC) and welfare costs are lower compared to BA who have to have separate accommodation agreements for different crew. Mixed fleet crew for example can often stay in “cheaper” accommodation vs other crew who may be required under their agreement to be downtown incurring additional expense.

TUI are generally a good company but anyone that thinks the grass is greener is somewhat naive - it’s not and things are hard everywhere. Just because cuts are not happening right now at a given company doesn’t mean they won’t happen within the next 6-12 months.