IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs
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On the other hand, if BA are determined to hold on to every LHR slot, it gives some sort of indication of how many aircraft - or at least movements - BA intends to use going forward. BALPA report that this information has not been forthcoming so far. Without it BA’s proposals for the number of redundancies required mean nothing and draw little credibility.
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On the other hand, if BA are determined to hold on to every LHR slot, it gives some sort of indication of how many aircraft - or at least movements - BA intends to use going forward. BALPA report that this information has not been forthcoming so far. Without it BA’s proposals for the number of redundancies required mean nothing and draw little credibility.
Taking the slots away does not threaten BA, it threatens IAG. What we are watching is the slow destruction of a premium airline for the benefit of LOCOs. It's all about the margins.
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On the other hand, if BA are determined to hold on to every LHR slot, it gives some sort of indication of how many aircraft - or at least movements - BA intends to use going forward. BALPA report that this information has not been forthcoming so far. Without it BA’s proposals for the number of redundancies required mean nothing and draw little credibility.
On the other point about the government taking away slots as punishment - not going to happen as to be seen to be fair you would have to do the same to any other airline that makes people redundant. The government cannot punish individual companies simply because they make more fuss in the media.
Jet II
The punishment is not for the redundancies. It is for the way it is being handled during a period where BA is accepting government money in the form of the Covidvirus Job Retention Scheme. BA is also making all the staff effectivley redundant (despite what certain posters on here keep saying) and re-hiring on reduced pay and T & Cs. Not exactly ethical at the best of times but now its just morally abhorent.
If BA at the outset had offered some form of Voluntary redundancy scheme and initiated meaningful negotiations before issuing the redundancy notice then this thing would probably be done and dusted by now. There would have been a stampede in the rush to leave with a few quid in one's pocket .
The punishment is not for the redundancies. It is for the way it is being handled during a period where BA is accepting government money in the form of the Covidvirus Job Retention Scheme. BA is also making all the staff effectivley redundant (despite what certain posters on here keep saying) and re-hiring on reduced pay and T & Cs. Not exactly ethical at the best of times but now its just morally abhorent.
If BA at the outset had offered some form of Voluntary redundancy scheme and initiated meaningful negotiations before issuing the redundancy notice then this thing would probably be done and dusted by now. There would have been a stampede in the rush to leave with a few quid in one's pocket .
Regardless of how you perceive my tone HZ123 was factually incorrect when he/she claimed "Pilots as always at the top happy to watch other groups cast out" and was making an unpleasant incorrect generalisation. That was a shame because the rest of the post contained some valid points.
I hope that is a bit more "conveable".
Jet II
The punishment is not for the redundancies. It is for the way it is being handled during a period where BA is accepting government money in the form of the Covidvirus Job Retention Scheme. BA is also making all the staff effectivley redundant (despite what certain posters on here keep saying) and re-hiring on reduced pay and T & Cs. Not exactly ethical at the best of times but now its just morally abhorent.
If BA at the outset had offered some form of Voluntary redundancy scheme and initiated meaningful negotiations before issuing the redundancy notice then this thing would probably be done and dusted by now. There would have been a stampede in the rush to leave with a few quid in one's pocket .
The punishment is not for the redundancies. It is for the way it is being handled during a period where BA is accepting government money in the form of the Covidvirus Job Retention Scheme. BA is also making all the staff effectivley redundant (despite what certain posters on here keep saying) and re-hiring on reduced pay and T & Cs. Not exactly ethical at the best of times but now its just morally abhorent.
If BA at the outset had offered some form of Voluntary redundancy scheme and initiated meaningful negotiations before issuing the redundancy notice then this thing would probably be done and dusted by now. There would have been a stampede in the rush to leave with a few quid in one's pocket .
most of your input is well worth a read. However, the "reduced pay and T and C" bit is not completely accurate. WW and some EF fleet will be on worse T & C. Not the MF fleet.
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BA not popular with politicians.
Coronavirus: British Airways threatened with loss of Heathrow slots after job cuts
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...cies-j9xtzntn6
Coronavirus: British Airways threatened with loss of Heathrow slots after job cuts
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...cies-j9xtzntn6
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Jet II
The punishment is not for the redundancies. It is for the way it is being handled during a period where BA is accepting government money in the form of the Covidvirus Job Retention Scheme. BA is also making all the staff effectivley redundant (despite what certain posters on here keep saying) and re-hiring on reduced pay and T & Cs. Not exactly ethical at the best of times but now its just morally abhorent.
The punishment is not for the redundancies. It is for the way it is being handled during a period where BA is accepting government money in the form of the Covidvirus Job Retention Scheme. BA is also making all the staff effectivley redundant (despite what certain posters on here keep saying) and re-hiring on reduced pay and T & Cs. Not exactly ethical at the best of times but now its just morally abhorent.
Unless any redundancies are carried out in violation of the Law then there are no grounds to punish anyone irrespective of how the Company decides to carry them out. It might be that the Government and some MP's dont like the idea of redundancies whilst the company uses the Job Retention Scheme but if the Legislation is does not specifically forbid it (and I suspect it does not given the speed with which it was introduced) there is nothing in Law preventing any lay-offs.
BA may well be breaking the law but because of the ridiculous way our legal system works, challenging BA can only be done after the fact. Even then it can only be challenged at tribunal and the award if successful is miniscule compared to the damage the redundancy causes. Such as the loss of a home due to mortgage default.
The maximum amount that you can be awarded as compensation for Unfair Dismissal is presently the statutory cap of £88,519, or 52 weeks gross salary- whichever is the lower. This is in addition to the basic award which can be ordered by the Tribunal of up to a maximum of £16,140. These figures are from 6th April 2020.
Unfair Dismissal
Last edited by TURIN; 4th Jun 2020 at 14:22. Reason: bed spilling
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It’s not just BA that are trying impose new contracts on existing staff. Virgin doing exactly the same...using government furlough scheme, making redundancies, and going to offer new contracts to all remaining (ground) staff with greatly reduced terms and conditions.
Turin is right about the law being an ass. If you can only sue/claim about an employer's action after the fact, the employer does something and you then run the risk of a Tribunal, I am not sure how big a deterrent that is to bad behaviour.
Allegedly, BASSA/Unite/whatever are trying to launch action to get Protection Order put in place, but their grounds are thin and entirely untested in UK law.
Allegedly, BASSA/Unite/whatever are trying to launch action to get Protection Order put in place, but their grounds are thin and entirely untested in UK law.
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The loss of slots would hit BA very hard. If the plan is to pull out of LGW and retreat into fortress Heathrow then that is where the previous LGW flights that they want to retain would go, using slots from unprofitable flights from LHR. Over time a migration back to LGW could begin using crews based at LHR on miserly pay and conditions, with outsourced ground support and a relatively low cost base. What BA do not want is to lose LHR slots to their major competitors, knowing that once gone it would be unlikely that they would ever return.
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Possible cessation of BA op at LGW!.
I believe in a leaked BA LGW 1 st May memo it was stated 'there is no certainty as to when or if these services can or will return'.
BA have 74 routes accounting for 17% of LGW capacity being about 20% of all operatrions at Gatwick. There is direct competition on 75% of these destinations. With exception of check-in staff the ground handling/dispatch was outsourced some years ago. I doubt that operating a wing of BA there is relatively low cost.
May be just a bluffing?
I believe in a leaked BA LGW 1 st May memo it was stated 'there is no certainty as to when or if these services can or will return'.
BA have 74 routes accounting for 17% of LGW capacity being about 20% of all operatrions at Gatwick. There is direct competition on 75% of these destinations. With exception of check-in staff the ground handling/dispatch was outsourced some years ago. I doubt that operating a wing of BA there is relatively low cost.
May be just a bluffing?
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From yesterday’s interview with Willie Walsh on sky news:
What about this campaign from Unite for you to lose slots at Heathrow? If you lose 25% of staff will you need as many slots in the future?
“It is a challenge I will be honest with you, but don’t forget this is across the British Airways group, so British Airways has a significant operation at London City, at Gatwick and at other airports so it’s not just about Heathrow. But clearly we would like to for the future, secure all of the slots that we currently have at Heathrow. That may not be possible. It may require us to leave some of the slots that we don’t intend to operate, but we would like to see, given that slots at Heathrow tend to be at a premium, we’d like to see if we can retain all of those. If we can’t because the business can’t afford to do so that will be a regrettable decision, but it just puts into context the crisis we are facing today.”
So he did not directly say he would pull out of Gatwick, but he appears to suggest he would rather lose Gatwick and London City operations before losing a single Heathrow slot.
What about this campaign from Unite for you to lose slots at Heathrow? If you lose 25% of staff will you need as many slots in the future?
“It is a challenge I will be honest with you, but don’t forget this is across the British Airways group, so British Airways has a significant operation at London City, at Gatwick and at other airports so it’s not just about Heathrow. But clearly we would like to for the future, secure all of the slots that we currently have at Heathrow. That may not be possible. It may require us to leave some of the slots that we don’t intend to operate, but we would like to see, given that slots at Heathrow tend to be at a premium, we’d like to see if we can retain all of those. If we can’t because the business can’t afford to do so that will be a regrettable decision, but it just puts into context the crisis we are facing today.”
So he did not directly say he would pull out of Gatwick, but he appears to suggest he would rather lose Gatwick and London City operations before losing a single Heathrow slot.
Possible cessation of BA op at LGW!.
I believe in a leaked BA LGW 1 st May memo it was stated 'there is no certainty as to when or if these services can or will return'.
BA have 74 routes accounting for 17% of LGW capacity being about 20% of all operatrions at Gatwick. There is direct competition on 75% of these destinations. With exception of check-in staff the ground handling/dispatch was outsourced some years ago. I doubt that operating a wing of BA there is relatively low cost.
May be just a bluffing?
I believe in a leaked BA LGW 1 st May memo it was stated 'there is no certainty as to when or if these services can or will return'.
BA have 74 routes accounting for 17% of LGW capacity being about 20% of all operatrions at Gatwick. There is direct competition on 75% of these destinations. With exception of check-in staff the ground handling/dispatch was outsourced some years ago. I doubt that operating a wing of BA there is relatively low cost.
May be just a bluffing?
Watching Wizz in the background to all of the other airlines floundering is quite something... it's almost as if they're in a parallel universe to everyone else.
I don't know how, but there needs to be a better mechanism of allocating slots - all the current grandfathering system does is protect the status quo and impedes competition.
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With regards redundancy, you cannot make a position redundant only to employ again in the exact same job role, the role has to have been diminished and a new different role created. For example, if you have a business with a van driver/logistics only position, you can make that position redundant but you could re-employ them (on different terms as they can re-apply) or someone else with a different role, such as warehouse and logistics.
So how you can make a Captain redundant and re-employ them on reduced terms I'm not sure as you can't them make them Captain and cabin crew, the position wouldn't allow it.
So how you can make a Captain redundant and re-employ them on reduced terms I'm not sure as you can't them make them Captain and cabin crew, the position wouldn't allow it.