IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs
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They are looking to make people redundant and avoid downtraining which would result by doing it purely by seniority. So if 200 are to go from the A320 it will be the 100 most junior Captains and FO's, likewise on all the other fleets. I assume that the most effected fleets will be the longhaul ones.
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Many of us understand the economic impact of this lockdown and the effect on airlines but this is complete opportunism by BA. No one will want to work for this company again if this morally bancrupt bunch of directors get their way. No one. When the economy picks up again and new airlines spring up there will be a mass exodus of highly qualified personel of all grades jumping ship. BA will be a shell of its former glory. Nice one Mt Walsh, well done.[/QUOTE]
I can assure you , that hundreds if not thousands will still be desperate to fly for BA , people are blinded by “flying the flag” etc...
One of the only the big positives I had for BA before I left (when I made the list of for and against) was job security, always thought BA would never get rid of pilots , god was I wrong ...
I can assure you , that hundreds if not thousands will still be desperate to fly for BA , people are blinded by “flying the flag” etc...
One of the only the big positives I had for BA before I left (when I made the list of for and against) was job security, always thought BA would never get rid of pilots , god was I wrong ...
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There is a government idea called The Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme. It involves a company accepting government (IE tax payers) money to supplement the wage bill to avoid redundancies. BA is currently part of this scheme. I don't expect this scheme to run indefinately but I do expect those companies who use it to live by it's rules.
Many of us understand the economic impact of this lockdown and the effect on airlines but this is complete opportunism by BA. No one will want to work for this company again if this morally bancrupt bunch of directors get their way. No one. When the economy picks up again and new airlines spring up there will be a mass exodus of highly qualified personel of all grades jumping ship. BA will be a shell of its former glory. Nice one Mt Walsh, well done.
Many of us understand the economic impact of this lockdown and the effect on airlines but this is complete opportunism by BA. No one will want to work for this company again if this morally bancrupt bunch of directors get their way. No one. When the economy picks up again and new airlines spring up there will be a mass exodus of highly qualified personel of all grades jumping ship. BA will be a shell of its former glory. Nice one Mt Walsh, well done.
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‘Sign here Mr Smith, now pull down your trousers and bend over!’
OMAA
In a time of crisis, most employees will see the light and take some sort of sacrifice in the short term to help the business and save their own job.
Airline executives have a habit though of never returning the favour in the 'good times'. IAG have made accumulated post tax profits of over 10bn EUR since 2014, even with a cash neutral Iberia. Whilst pay and conditions remained constant or went down for everyone. Please also don't forget that this isn't 12,000 pilots - this is everyone. Engineers, dispatchers, cabin crew, back office staff. Guys who are already paid vastly inferior sums without such a powerful union and, like in many airlines, have gradually had their T&Cs regressed over time.
Airline executives have a habit though of never returning the favour in the 'good times'. IAG have made accumulated post tax profits of over 10bn EUR since 2014, even with a cash neutral Iberia. Whilst pay and conditions remained constant or went down for everyone. Please also don't forget that this isn't 12,000 pilots - this is everyone. Engineers, dispatchers, cabin crew, back office staff. Guys who are already paid vastly inferior sums without such a powerful union and, like in many airlines, have gradually had their T&Cs regressed over time.
I see at least one senior manager in one department seems to have tried to row things back a bit in the last 24 hours with (I paraphrase) claims that of course the initial letter was a hard letter to write, that the initial comms were in effect legally/template driven, but having done that can we now actually talk about negotiating nicely..
Controversial, moi?
I can’t find seem to find out if the redundancies are going to be based on seniority, as they seem to be across captains and first officers alike. Can someone shed light on this?
From a common sense point of view if, for example, the B747 was to be scrapped why would a company want to make the most junior pilots on, say, the B777 fleet redundant and then go to the expense of conversion courses for all the former B747 pilots?
The world changes and LIFO was the unwritten rule for years but no longer.
So why wouldnt BA offer 2400 part time positions rather than 1200 redundancies?
Earning half of a big wage for working half of the time is better than no wage and keeps pilots current
Also gives BA the capability to ramp up quickly if demand dictates, with current pilots ready to go back to full time. Why let all those trained type rated pilots walk out the door, its madness.
I understand there an increased training burden, but in my company it was offset with rather than 50% pay cut, it was something like 52% to help with training costs, after all, it was better than being redundant.
Earning half of a big wage for working half of the time is better than no wage and keeps pilots current
Also gives BA the capability to ramp up quickly if demand dictates, with current pilots ready to go back to full time. Why let all those trained type rated pilots walk out the door, its madness.
I understand there an increased training burden, but in my company it was offset with rather than 50% pay cut, it was something like 52% to help with training costs, after all, it was better than being redundant.
I see at least one senior manager in one department seems to have tried to row things back a bit in the last 24 hours with (I paraphrase) claims that of course the initial letter was a hard letter to write, that the initial comms were in effect legally/template driven, but having done that can we now actually talk about negotiating nicely.
I see at least one senior manager in one department seems to have tried to row things back a bit in the last 24 hours with (I paraphrase) claims that of course the initial letter was a hard letter to write, that the initial comms were in effect legally/template driven, but having done that can we now actually talk about negotiating nicely..
When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Without Seniority, BA state redundancies to be predicated on Company requirements, and assessment. As no sim assessment at the moment due social distancing, and presumably mass interviews not practical either. Lets hope it doesn't degenerate to , mates of the Flight Manager, favouritism etc.
Although from the comments, and his past disregard for his pilots interests, this Flight Manager AB, won't have many friends!!
Although from the comments, and his past disregard for his pilots interests, this Flight Manager AB, won't have many friends!!
There is a government idea called The Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme. It involves a company accepting government (IE tax payers) money to supplement the wage bill to avoid redundancies. BA is currently part of this scheme. I don't expect this scheme to run indefinately but I do expect those companies who use it to live by it's rules.
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What is agreed by all is that changes implemented by companies which go beyond the essential changes required to meet the post-Covid marketplace (such as taking swipes at illness benefits) are cynical, opportunist, attacks on Ts & Cs. Good luck to each and every one of you - sad and shocking times.
H 'n' H
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Without Seniority, BA state redundancies to be predicated on Company requirements, and assessment. As no sim assessment at the moment due social distancing, and presumably mass interviews not practical either. Lets hope it doesn't degenerate to , mates of the Flight Manager, favouritism etc.
Although from the comments, and his past disregard for his pilots interests, this Flight Manager AB, won't have many friends!!
Although from the comments, and his past disregard for his pilots interests, this Flight Manager AB, won't have many friends!!
want to use. It’s now down to Balpa to see if they can reduce the numbers involved or change that methodology but with the retraining bill for LIFO from
the MSL running into many millions it’s difficult to see how they’d get BA to budge on this.
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Is it possible to collapse one and then start a whole new airline just by virtue of where the employees prefer not to work? That's what these management b*stards at BA deserve right now
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As I’ve said and predicted before the whole process is being done exactly as per Flybe in 2013, which was also done by fleet and by seat. The assessment process will be the formulation of a matrix which will in all likelihood include weighted LIFO with other points for sickness and disciplinaries thrown in but weighted towards LIFO. It’s the easiest way to keep it all legal and I was at the wrong end of it in the past. I’m not saying that this is how it’s necessarily going to play out but this is the methodology that BA
want to use. It’s now down to Balpa to see if they can reduce the numbers involved or change that methodology but with the retraining bill for LIFO from
the MSL running into many millions it’s difficult to see how they’d get BA to budge on this.
want to use. It’s now down to Balpa to see if they can reduce the numbers involved or change that methodology but with the retraining bill for LIFO from
the MSL running into many millions it’s difficult to see how they’d get BA to budge on this.
There are 100 Senior Capts in top 300 on 744 and 380 and may be within preretirement freeze.
If 744 and 380 do not return in large numbers what will they choose to do?
I Have Control
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FIFO might be tempting (Reverse LIFO) to the cullers. Except that the newer 787 and 350 fleets may be well-populated by seniors too. I would not bet on fair play with this lot.
Incidentally, is the man at the top of sound mind these days? It is well-known but not oft-said that this person is suffering from a progressive neurological disorder. This is of course unfortunate, but I wonder if the ranks have closed around him as they did to protect Ronald Reagan during his second term as President. He too was in decline, due to a different but equally debilitating illness.
Incidentally, is the man at the top of sound mind these days? It is well-known but not oft-said that this person is suffering from a progressive neurological disorder. This is of course unfortunate, but I wonder if the ranks have closed around him as they did to protect Ronald Reagan during his second term as President. He too was in decline, due to a different but equally debilitating illness.
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From a common sense point of view if, for example, the B747 was to be scrapped why would a company want to make the most junior pilots on, say, the B777 fleet redundant and then go to the expense of conversion courses for all the former B747 pilots?
Let's hope that can of worms doesn't need to get opened.
Retraining anyone costs the same money, so no savings there, surely?