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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 1st Oct 2020, 22:02
  #1901 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: titan
Posts: 37
I've just been through transferring out of a DB scheme and it's alot of paperwork and cost.
Background: Transfer values are based on what it costs your DB scheme to buy investments that cover your costs during drawdown. These have to be made up of low risk securities such as government bonds, cash holdings etc. At the moment government bonds although secure, don't pay out much interest (often negative interest just now) therefore your pension fund needs to buy more of them to get the returns needed to give you your guarantee DB pension, hence the transfer values are high at the moment, as its still cheaper to get you out than risk having to buy millions in worthless bonds etc. That's the main driver of transfer values, it's calculated exactly and fluctuates month to month, the company has no control over this and is nothing to do with the share price etc. Every company follows the same rules to calculate transfer values.
The FCA say that the expectation is that for most people thinking of transferring out, it is categorically not a good idea, and that's what the IFA will begin with. It's very difficult to prove its in your interest to transfer out, actually it's weighted so heavily towards not doing so that it's almost impossible to get a recommendation. Makes sense as the government would rather see you have a little guaranteed pot, than blow or lose it all on the open markets and then it costs them more!
Everything in my IFA report pointed towards transferring out being the better but they still recommended not to transfer. I got a 58 page report and it cost £2.4k for the pleasure. But I am still transferring out, against the recommendation.
So to transfer out you need to have taken advice from an IFA if your value is over £30k sterling. You don't have to follow the advice if they say its not in your interest to transfer out nor do you need to go through the ombudsman, you are free to decide whatever the report says. The problem you have is trying to find an IFA that will do a report, most won't touch it as the base line is to not transfer out, therefore its a waste of money to do an expensive report that will say not to. IFAs will always err on the cautious side to avoid future litigation incase they advise you to transfer out and your funds plummet. So your going to most likely pay a lot of money for a report that says don't do it. But you need this report to show you have at least taken advice, regardless of what it recommends. Now the second problem you have is trying to find an investment platform that will take your money with a recommendation to remain in the DB scheme. Again most platforms won't touch you for fear of litigation.
However it can be done and you can transfer out regardless of what the advice says and you are known as an insistent investor.
So what will likely give you a recommendation to transfer out : well if you had a terminal illness, other guaranteed incomes that are far in excess of your DB pot, if the company was likely to collapse and your DB fund defaults to the PPF. Things like that. The rules are so tight against transferring out, that anyone under 50 will likely get a no recommendation.
If Anyone wants to pm me feel free. I can put you in touch with the right people that I used but it does cost money and you most likely will get a not to transfer recommendation but that shouldn't stop you if your comfortable with making your cash work and can take the losses alongside the gains.
avtur007 is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2020, 14:23
  #1902 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Age: 51
Posts: 25

In correct based on my experience....I transferred out of my scheme recently....advice was to remain...cost £2000......as I said previously you just have to sign a disclaimer.
8029848s is offline  
Old 2nd Oct 2020, 15:12
  #1903 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 2,904
All LGW engineering staff being offered VR again. Hangar to shut, line operation only in the future.
TURIN is online now  
Old 3rd Oct 2020, 10:16
  #1904 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 6
Are all the BA pilots who were striking last year for a bigger share of the profits giving money back to the company now they are making huge losses?
MichaelOLearyGenius is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2020, 12:20
  #1905 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,916
I suppose they might have considered it, but then looked at the example set by very senior management and went....
wiggy is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2020, 15:21
  #1906 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 24

ha ha what a great troll! all the pilots who went on strike last year did not ever get a "bigger share of the profits", our profit share was £0.00 before and has remained so ever since.

still, said pilots have handed wads of cash back to the airline, pay cuts to the tune of 2 months wages between April - December 2020.

and these are the lucky ones who avoided compulsory redundancy.
White Van Driver is offline  
Old 3rd Oct 2020, 20:00
  #1907 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 145

In short, Yes. Happy now ?
FlipFlapFlop is offline  
Old 6th Oct 2020, 11:12
  #1908 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: sussex
Posts: 610
White Van Driver

Nobody has handed great wads of cash to anyone. People have sensibly taking away reduction for the reasons of preserving jobs.
You may have noticed not to many people are actually working or aircraft flying these days.
stormin norman is offline  
Old 6th Oct 2020, 17:50
  #1909 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 473
Really? Yes we are working less but on SH we are still working a fair bit
bex88 is offline  
Old 6th Oct 2020, 18:43
  #1910 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 24
The paycut across all the pilots has saved the company around £60m this year (very rough calc). I don't disagree with this as a methodology, in fact I voted for it. But it still counts as wads of cash by any metric! And this is the same group of pilots who were told very clearly that there wouldn't be any profit share for them when the profits were nudging £2000m a year.

The whole point of a profit share is that it goes down to zero when times get tough for the company, giving them an automatic reduction of outgoings.

MichaelOLearyGenius is clearly trolling for something, but I just couldn't let the false narrative slide by unchallenged.
White Van Driver is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2020, 17:12
  #1911 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Marlow (mostly)
Posts: 251
"Pilots Together" charity

This charity was mentioned in an earlier thread. It is now fully registered and able to accept donations. Its beneficiaries are pilots in all aviation areas. British Airways pilots and retirees are able to contribute by the Payroll Giving scheme, which this may also be available for other airlines. If you're in the fortunate position of still having a secure income from a career as a pilot, please consider contributing.

A new UK registered charity (Number 1191122) has been set up by current pilots and supporters in summer 2020 in response to the impact of Covid-19 on our community.

PilotsTogether’s goal is to ensure that pilots made redundant remain a part of our community, retain the skills they already have and to help them gain new skills and hopefully gainful employment. We also aim to ensure that no former colleagues and their families face significant financial hardship.

To read more about out mission please visit https://pilotstogether.org/our-mission/

Payroll Giving is the easiest and most tax efficient way to donate to PilotsTogether. The donation is paid from your salary before tax and is set up to donate monthly.

The amount of tax relief you get depends on the rate of tax you pay. Using an example donation of £50 a month, the cost to a higher rate taxpayer would be £30 per month. For a basic rate taxpayer the cost would be £40 per month.

If you are a current employee, to set up payroll giving please visithttps://givingonline.org.uk/British+Air ... index.html

For retired colleagues, please visit
https://givingonline.org.uk/British-Air ... harity.php

It is a very simple process and only takes a few minutes. When you are asked what charity you wish to donate to, please select ‘Pilots Together’. If it does not prepopulate please enter ‘Pilots Together (1191122)‘.

You can also donate directly online here : https://pilotstogether.org/donate/

Registered Charity No. 1191122
slast is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2020, 18:48
  #1912 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: inv
Posts: 321
How about those on the ground?
scr1 is online now  
Old 7th Oct 2020, 19:55
  #1913 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Surrey
Posts: 461
scr1, I fully appreciate that those on the ground are also in a terrible position at the moment, and financial hardship may well be upon them, so please don’t take this as anything other than an observation:

As I understand it, the charity was set up by serving (and crucially, ‘safe’) BA pilots who felt they wanted to help their (hopefully temporarily) redundant flight deck colleagues, all of whom are junior and many of whom are still laden with large training debt, and who may have been safe had LIFO not been used. They are now looking for funding, the idea being that other BA pilots are the primary source of donations. Other donations welcome, of course.

Perhaps a branch within the charity could be set up for other work groups, or even advice given from the founders of PT to those wishing to set up a similar charity for their workgroup?
Busdriver01 is offline  
Old 7th Oct 2020, 21:03
  #1914 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 67
Having been made redundant in the previous crisis and having done al sorts of jobs outside the cockpit I just want to state that getting an ATPL is a high risk investment. You knew the financial debt you were getting in when you signed your loan with the bank. For this reason I will not contribute. Sorry for that but there are loads if people who are affected by this COVID-19 crisis, not only pilots. If you have the right stamina you will succeed in the end. Do not give up. In the mean time take any job you can get. Give it time.
SaulGoodman is offline  
Old 8th Oct 2020, 18:24
  #1915 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 715

Maybe their ground colleagues will also get together and do something as positive as the pilots have done.
BitMoreRightRudder is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2020, 04:23
  #1916 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 1

Sorry, but what do you mean by "pilots in all aviation areas"?

Do you mean pilots who are NOT just BA compulsory redundant (CR) but anyone who has been made CR by any UK airline? If the latter, then I take off my hat to those BA pilots who are willing to donate to all the UK's unemployed pilots!
ID 50 is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2020, 17:43
  #1917 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 71

Always nice reading things like this. This isnt like any previous crisis and things wont take the same trajectory as before, recovery will be long and difficult. It is a shame this crisis hasnt allowed you to think of others rather than just yourself. Its not just about a training loan (regardless of the fact BA actually owe several cadets their bond back but are refusing to pay more than a year).

This is half the problem with our industry- I went through it so now you have to, seniority at its worst. Sparing 60£pcm after-tax to help people avoid bankrupcty and certain financial ruin is a small price to pay and despite my own worries about job security I will have no issue in trying to help out my colleagues. The job market out there is non-existent and it is truly disheartening to read things like this. I just hope the rest of our membership doesnt think like this.
MikeAlpha320 is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2020, 18:06
  #1918 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Thank you for your post. I realise the world owes us nothing but not following what we want to do in life in case we get hit by a rock or the world collapses is defeatist in itself.
SaulGoodman, yes “there are loads of people who are affected by this Covid-19 crisis, not only pilots” and I have a lot of empathy for them, but this is a pilots forum. Brethren at heart? Maybe not.
cycles gladiator is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 08:17
  #1919 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 67
This was first posted in a diffeerent thread. But if it is “by BA pilots, for BA pilots” by all means, go ahead. But it looked like it was initially presented as a charity for all redundant pilots...

SaulGoodman is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2020, 14:11
  #1920 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 71
Rumours that BA are short of pilots for a couple of fleets already.. guys/girls are receiving texts asking to pick up extra work
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