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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 13th Jul 2020, 20:16
  #1261 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
You can only say itís a better outcome for many than expected, but still dreadful for many too. The reality is 850-900 would be redundant if it were not for Balpa and the pilot workforce. Our measures will help many significantly and at very least pause rather than stop the careers of those who find themselves redundant.

It is crap, it makes you cross but I understand why we are where we are. I feel gutted for anyone who is CR, it could even be me, but I am encouraged by the career returns agreed to.

True, it is good to see the workforce helping each other out.
Quite a contrast to the behaviour of the management.

It is a shame that, having helped BA/IAG prepare for such a downturn with massive profits, shareholder returns, and high liquidity over the last few years, the reward is to be permanently screwed further, with some possibly losing their livelihoods for it.
777JRM is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2020, 11:07
  #1262 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
If we have a long term revenue problem we donít need to worry about our jobs. No business can survive such a loss of revenue for a sustained period. Just donít even think about what may or may not happen. It will only make today miserable.
I didn't really ask the question from a "lets throw up our hands in desperation and despair" point of view. Maybe that didn't come across.

IAG will have a plan. It must include a reasonable worst case scenario of a terrible winter with no meaningful recovery until 2021 in our key markets. Once they square away the consultations it will be most interesting indeed to see what they have to say about it.

Northern Monkey is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2020, 12:24
  #1263 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
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Ok I see what you mean.

How will we ride out the immediate rough patch without cutting the airline to the point that we cannot relaunch a purposeful recovery going forward.

bex88 is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2020, 16:53
  #1264 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 54
Probably the best deal available given IAGs tactics.... however.....

Am I right in saying the majority will be "expected" (if not by BA, but by "peer pressure" from their colleagues) to go onto 87.5% part time (therefore 87.5% of the new lower payscales)....... so that 300 pilots can sit at home for two years on 66.6% pay?

I know people have families, mortgages, bills, and I don't want to see anyone redundant or suffer.... but how can it be right that 300 pilots are paid 66.6% to do nothing for two years while we also have pilots being paid 50% for 50% work, 58% for 58% work etc..... What I'm saying is someone doing work for the company will be paid LESS than someone sitting at home, and how can that be right?

Also, how can we "support" 300, but throw up to 450 (hopefully less) into Compulsory redundancy and Zero income? Why greatly support some, while throwing others under a bus?

Finally, what protection will be put in place to guard against some of the lucky 300 being paid 66.6% of BA salary, and going and getting a job elsewhere? If they get a job elsewhere (presumably in a different sector), they should have to declare the amount gained and either that amount, or half that amount, is deducted from their BA (actually colleague's) money!

I am all for looking after the team, and I don't want ANYONE redundant ideally. But the points I've raised above do concern me.

Dave is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2020, 17:44
  #1265 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 758
Iím sure someone will come across with a more detailed reply , but my 2 penneth:
The 2 years in the pool is up to 2 years . I imagine many will be keen to get back flying . If they are more picky, the salary is 33%. Hardly a fortune, more like keeping the wolf from the door with belt tightening. If someone decides to hold out for that long haul fleet cos they commute from Aberdeen or Nice, why shouldnít they be able to get a job in Waitrose or Carrefour to top up the pay protection?
One thing I do notice in BA over the years is the amount of green-eye that has developed. I wonder if other professionals squabble at what others are getting or if itís just a pilot thing ?
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 18:02
  #1266 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: England
Posts: 88
Dave as I understand it, any part time would be to save compulsory redundancy not to save money for the community retention scheme.

As one of the 450 I largely had the same thoughts as you. I applaud and support any effort to save anyone from redundancy but it leaves a slightly sour taste that we are only able to save some at the apparent expense of others.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 18:04
  #1267 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
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I guess youíre feeling safe from the CRS pool then!

Think of it this way; those pilots who will end up in the CRS on 30% or 60% of basic, (which is probably more like 20% or 50% of their normal pay), are actually contractually due 100%. The only reason there is no work for them to do is because BA is not making an additional 300 pilots redundant. Contractually, the vast majority of the people taking the big pay cut within the CRS are way too senior to actually be at risk of redundancy. So think of your pay cut, (and the even bigger sacrifice made by the poor buggers in the CRS), as being part of the collective response to keep 300 of our most junior colleagues employed. It is a real shame we could not all be employed on part time contracts to share the financial pain and the work more evenly, but apparently they wouldnít go for that idea.

Do you honestly think the people in the CRS want to have no work? As for barring them from doing another job so they can somehow pay their mortgages! Are guy for real? You would prefer they lose their houses would you? I wonder if it was possible to volunteer to be in this wonderful CRS you seem so envious of, whether you would actually put yourself forward for it?
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 18:10
  #1268 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
Thegreenmachine. Apparently VR interest has been huge. I’m hoping for a high interest in the part time options to save as many of you guys as we possibly can. The company weren’t interested in making part time compulsory, but if enough volunteer, it would be truly fantastic if we could somehow end up saving everyone! I know it is unlikely we can save everyone, but the more the merrier I say, and I really hope we can save your job.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 18:30
  #1269 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by GS-Alpha View Post
Thegreenmachine. Apparently VR interest has been huge.
Be interesting to hear how much of that huge interest remains, given that the size of settlement is now known.

If you're a handful of months off leaving the company anyway, or just want to get out of dodge then taking the current deal makes sense ( and I gather some have now committed to going end July if the company releases them, that has yet to be finalised )...but I think a fair few are hanging in until end August and not committing until as late as possible in the hope BA come up with a better deal.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 19:04
  #1270 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Dublin
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Were expressions of interest not made after the figures were sent out? Understand there could be a few that registered in order to buy more time before making the final decision who have since decided to stay, but hopefully take-up will be healthy.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 19:08
  #1271 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: In the sky
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Confirmed today that BA CityFlyer will be closing their EDI base, which has 52 pilots and 55 cabin crew.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 19:12
  #1272 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by The Foss View Post
Were expressions of interest not made after the figures were sent out?
I gather it's a never ending circle of e-mails..you only got your own bespoke figures once you'd expressed an initial interest by e-mail.
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Old 14th Jul 2020, 19:40
  #1273 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: UK
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Given I'm likely to end up in the CRS, if I bid for all fleets and end up on roughly 50% of my normal income (in fact it's less as there's no NCP which was pretty common but ignoring that fact there's no allowances which is a HUGE loss). 50% of my basic just about covers my mortgage payments. I still have two loans and a whole host of bills including council tax, water, electricity blah blah blah resulting in me being approx minus 700 per month before I've even started paying for petrol - let alone food and two kids!
Frankly, I'm taking a hit on pay and being put in the CRS which is resulting in a more junior pilot remaning on the new 'full pay' or whatever it'll be. Whilst I'd prefer to take this hit as it keeps a fellow colleague employed, based on our contract (LIFO) then it should actually be the more junior pilot being made redundant and me keeping full (80% etc) pay. It doesn't state said senior pilot will take big pay cut for possibly up to two years to keep junior pilot employed - it says L.I.F.O.

For you to say we shouldn't be allowed to work elsewhere is utterly pathetic. What would you suggest, we default on our mortgages, declare ourselves bankrupt and rent forever more because you don't think it's fair if we work somewhere else whilst BA don't want us flying? Given there aren't any flying jobs, most of us will be in Lidl stacking shelves on £9ph.

Another point is that NO ONE should feel pressure from their colleagues to go part time. Many of us have 30 years left. To make a decision now that will have a significant effect on the rest of our careers such as forever part time - because of peer pressure - is wrong. Do it if you can/want to/feel it's right/wife insists. Don't do it out of pressure.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 01:03
  #1274 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: sussex
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Welcome to the real world.
stormin norman is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2020, 05:52
  #1275 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2001
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sunny chase, an excellent post.You are exactly correct, contractually LIFO is our base line.It is understandable that BA wish to protect the A350/787 and I’m fortunate to be on the latter with 27 years service.
All this talk of “solidarity” comrades reminds me why I stopped paying 1% a decade ago.
It may be harsh but in times like this looking after #1 is what my family wants to hear.
Sounds rather like the “financial distribution suggestions” are straight out of the Socialist training agenda by Union reps who are seeing them entering CRS.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 07:28
  #1276 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 476
Having seen how management in a number of airlines has behaved a return to a more socially responsible system is no bad thing.

Looking after #1 is not a lesson I want to pass on to my children.

I speak as a man who cheered on Maggie during the miners’ strike.
fivecandles is online now  
Old 15th Jul 2020, 10:42
  #1277 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: jersey
Age: 71
Posts: 1,326
There are quite a few of us about ! One thing that the last thirty odd years have taught me is that they are all idiots - Government, bosses & unions.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 14:59
  #1278 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: up up up
Posts: 380
Tui BALPA cc and the company have just come up with a deal resulting in zero redundancies or demotions and no long term changes to pay and conditions.

Itís a fantastic example of what CAN be done when both the union and management want to protect jobs and work together.
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 15:36
  #1279 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 326
Flap 80

Nope, not true. And you sound selfish and smug. Hey, but you're ok so [email protected] your colleagues eh?
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Old 15th Jul 2020, 15:38
  #1280 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
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Originally Posted by Flap 80 View Post
contractually LIFO is our base line.
negotiated by the union btw, which you don't subscribe to.....
The Blu Riband is offline  

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