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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:21
  #1061 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 56
Posts: 3,206
Rumour mill is active today. No compulsary redundancies for pilots but a 15% pay cut. Eek!
TURIN is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:36
  #1062 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
There have been an awful lot of pilot rumours floating around recently. I think it best to completely ignore them. They may well be based on fact, but they could equally likely be complete works of fiction.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 14:41
  #1063 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Surrey
Posts: 477
It has been said before but worth restating. I know this is a rumour network but I would urge all to refrain from posting or spreading rumours. If they’re worse than the actual deal, it causes unnecessary panic, worry, fear, depression. If they’re better than the actual deal, it causes an even greater heartache when the real deal is announced.

At best spreading rumours is unhelpful and at worst it’s downright cruel.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 16:01
  #1064 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 564
Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Rumour mill is active today. No compulsary redundancies for pilots but a 15% pay cut. Eek!
Will the pilots accept the reduction for all or insist on staff reductions with no pay cut for those who are left and will they have a choice?
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 16:52
  #1065 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 146

Absolutely. Some of us have heard rumours in the last couple of days.......but they are rumours. It is not helpful at all to pontificate on what might turn out to be crap, especially with BA management plants on this site watching and commenting.
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 18:08
  #1066 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,125
FFS Longtimer,

How can you ask that question when no proposal is on the table and no such question has been asked of the pilots?

Show some decorum, man
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Old 26th Jun 2020, 20:41
  #1067 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,181

All we know at the moment is that as far as the pilots are concerned the company have floated Voluntary Redundancy...that's getting mixed reviews (just how much it floats your boat depends on personal circumstances), and are offering a variety of Part Time contracts - I'm still getting my head around the particularly imaginative concept of 87.5% Part Time Working .

Anyone claiming ATM that they have hard figures on percentage pay cuts, fleets being binned, numbers of compulsory redundancies, is just stirring things..it's not helpful..

Some of the idiots causing all sorts of grief and stress by mouthing off all sorts of fiction ("I heard from a friend of a trainer's dog") on various Whatsapp groups really really need to take hard look at themselves before they next put thumb to keyboard.....they are causing a lot of damage.
wiggy is online now  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 08:35
  #1068 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 459
"The airline is believed to have been burning £20m a day while the vast majority of its fleet has been grounded".

So that 2Bn mentioned earlier is roughly 100 days.

And the Union are going to investors?

ChicoG is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2020, 17:46
  #1069 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 56

Amateur hour is appropriate when dealing with Unite and Balpa; the management might be acting out the script from dumb and dumber but they still have some way to go to reach the utter incompetence of the union leaders.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 04:33
  #1070 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 459
From the Currant Bun so who knows how accurate it is.

(Bloomberg) -- British Airways, a unit of International Consolidated Airlines Group, will cut 350 pilots and put another 300 in a “pool” for re-hire when needed as part of a deal reached with cockpit crew, The Sun reported.

Most of the pilots facing compulsory redundancies worked from Gatwick airport in London, according to the report, which didn’t say where the information came from. Captains and first officers who are placed in the pool don’t currently have an aircraft to work on and will remain on half-pay, while all other operating flight crew will take a 15% pay cut for now, it said.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 05:50
  #1071 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 840
Doesn’t really add up for me - I guess this would cover the 747 retirements (if that is indeed correct) and maybe the odd 777 out of the fleet that moves from LGW, but where are the other 11000 jobs coming from?

It would sound that BAW are rowing back on their original plans and the old chestnut “not as bad as first feared”.
Dannyboy39 is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 06:19
  #1072 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 24
This article is quite the fabrication. I'm not involved in the talks directly, but we have had the union tell us very clearly that the consultation has a long way to go and no deal has yet been made.
Besides, they have just announced a voluntary part time scheme and extended the VR window for a couple of weeks, so regardless of any "where there's smoke there's fire" no one yet has any idea on the numbers.

Pretty shoddy reporting on the basis of a single unconfirmed statement.
Link to the sun article: looks like i cant post an url until i get to 10 posts, but a quick Google search will reveal
White Van Driver is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 07:22
  #1073 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 261
The basis of this is a WhatsApp message that did the rounds a week or so ago, and was vaguely dismissed by BALPA as being bollocks (wasn’t the strongest denial I’ve ever seen however...)

Personally, and with no evidence whatsoever, I do think a deal has been agreed in principle, it probably has some elements from the above “deal”, and we are at the management (IAG?) sign off / legality check / how do we pitch it to members as a win stage.
thetimesreader84 is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 13:17
  #1074 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 864
There’s actually quite a disturbing message for Balpa members reading between the lines of that article if it’s accurate (which admittedly is a big if). “Pilot Union Balpa negotiators succeeded in their bid to ensure BA did not enact a ‘last in first out’ job loss policy”.

Now that definitely sounds like the reporter has got his facts muddled up until you consider “most of the cockpit crew facing compulsory redundancies worked from Gatwick Airport”. Have Balpa just sold out Gatwick in order to protect the Long Haul boys and girls?

Now most probably lazy journalism but if true then stand by for fireworks..
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 13:36
  #1075 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: London
Posts: 91
It sounds like they did, they defended LIFO, not the other way around. BA was most likely going after the top end and not the bottom. Good luck to them trying to gather support from junior members in future disputes, it’s utterly disgusting! Looking over the fence, in other airlines the BALPA reps are trying hard to ensure the pain is shared evenly, it’s sad to see how elitist the BA lot still are.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 13:49
  #1076 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 116
it’s written in our MOA which forms part of our contract that every BA pilot signs. Far from disgusting or elitist, just ensuring the company follow what is in our agreements. Or would you prefer BA to be able to ignore contracts and agreements as they see fit? What would then be the point of “agreeing” anything at all?
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 14:01
  #1077 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 864
But there’s only 75 Gatwick P2s in the bottom 350 of the MSL. How does that tie in with the report that most of the 350 redundant people will be Gatwick “cockpit crew”? So either Balpa haven’t defended LIFO at all or it’s just shoddy journalism.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 14:02
  #1078 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,181

Look like yet again it needs pointing out that the Bloomberg/Sun article seems to be based on an unsubstantiated rumour circulated on Whatsapp a few days ago....

I know this may be an old fashioned way of thinking but maybe it would be wise to reserve passing judgement on "how elitist the BA lot still are" until we see something official from BALPA...
wiggy is online now  
Old 28th Jun 2020, 14:14
  #1079 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: London
Posts: 91
Yes, we shall see. That said, I speak from experience. BA has broken agreements in 2006(birth of Gatwick fleet), 2010 cabin crew disputes, 2007(MF disputes) and now. There is no interest from your reps in changing that part of the MOA in order to provide a fairer option and protect the junior members, it’s clear protectionism of the old guard. My airline does it as LIFO alone is discriminatory, another airline, Virgin, also felt that it was unfair to carry out LIFO in their last redundancies.

Yes the source isn’t the strongest, however I believe we will get some news this coming week and it will follow those lines, but as you say, lets see. In regards to the comment I made about elitism, I stick to what I say, I have seen enough of my many years at BA to come out with that judgement. It’s my opinion and judgement, you don’t have to agree but your disagreement will not erase my experiences.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 14:16
  #1080 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 116

You clearly have little knowledge of what LIFO will entail or what our MOA actually says then. I won’t repeat it here as if you worked at BA, well, then you’d know.
If there is a LIFO deal, and it’s still an IF, it’ll be LIFO plus some other stuff. Like active disciplinarians and poor performance; which would address those issues that, I agree, needed sorting a long time ago.
As for cabin crew agreements in 2006, well I’m not sure about that as I don’t recall the exact details. 2010 however, BA did seek to break their agreements and as I recall, BASSA took them to court and ithe judgement was that the MOA forms part of the contract so must be respected.
Quite why BALPA should have renegotiated the LIFO part of the MOA years ago, like your company; why would they do that? BA is a seniority airline. Everyone who joins knows that, and it’s positives and indeed negatives. Joining, them whinging it’s unfair just smacks of the I want it all and I want it now brigade. We will have to differ as to your definition of “fair” too. Is it fair that someone who joined last week into the A350 gets to stay, but someone who has given 30+ years service but flies a 747, gets the chop? Sorry fella; there’s nothing at all fair about that In my book. Life ain’t fair unfortunately, it’s just isn’t and In the absence of a better system a LIFO+ matrix is about as good a way I can think of.
There are many negatives to seniority too, but on balance give me the transparency of LIFO/seniority than the way virgin, Emirates and Wizz went about treating their crews.
Just in case you haven’t worked it out I do indeed work there, and have done for 22 years. What aircraft does to wife fly? FO/Captain? Or is she crew? If she’s crew then let’s leave BASSA&UNITE to fight there own arguments eh? And defend their own agreements as they see fit; they have nothing to do with pilot agreements.

Last edited by 3Greens; 28th Jun 2020 at 14:27.
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