IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Delta of Venus
Posts: 459
As I understand it, once a pension is in payment then it is protected for life and paid in accordance with the rules of the scheme, even if that means cannibalizing the future pensions of those not yet drawing them. (Doesn't seem very fair to me, but when was anything to do with finance ever "fair"?) However I understand that the company is legally obliged to make up the shortfall, if it can... What I was highlighting is the fact that if BA doesn't make money in future and can't pay their £300 million a year "fill in" then the black hole shortfall will persist and at some point the pensions for those taking them in the future will have to be cut. There must be plenty of NAPS members still in the employ of BA who will stand to lose a lot of money if BA does not "thrive" in future and to a lesser extent deferred members like myself. So salary cut now or smaller pension later?
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 3,037
There is only a shortfall if all the liabilities have to be payed. They don't and never have done. The billion pound shortfall was and is nonsense. It makes so many assumptions its laughable. When NAPS was closed, the argument used to say it was unsustainable was based on all members having a life expectancy of 93 (women) and 92 (men). The actual life expectancy is a lot lower. Funny that. ONS Life Expectancy UK
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 143
Originally Posted by 777JRM
This may be nonsense.
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Originally Posted by 777JRM
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What is your source?
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What is your source?
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 3,037
You're right. IoM not covered by the PPS.
https://www.pensionsage.com/pa/Flybe...protection.php
Disgraceful!
https://www.pensionsage.com/pa/Flybe...protection.php
Disgraceful!
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by 66 and retired
What NoelEvans wrote. My letter didn’t even include my name! 35% reduction for an in-payment member. I understand that those not yet in payment may lose it all.
Disgraceful.
Was it still a ‘live’ scheme, or closed (ring-fenced) up to a certain date?
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 143
It was under BA's wing (excuse the pun) from March 2001 to March 2007.
I don't think that it was fully funded at any stage during that time (can someone correct me on that?).
Don't get too excited about what PPS can do.
I don't think that it was fully funded at any stage during that time (can someone correct me on that?).
Don't get too excited about what PPS can do.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 3
Shareholders and control
Originally Posted by TURIN
You're right. IoM not covered by the PPS.
Disgraceful!
Disgraceful!
Example: Nationwide (The Building Society) regularly asks member to vote for decisions but we all know that 99.9% of members just select the "quick vote" option so all remuneration packages are approved by members. There is no alternative anyway. At the top they know this is a trick and it works very well.
This type of system needs to change.
Employees must be shareholders and control their Senior Management otherwise greed will destroy the industry.
The entire BA saga is a joke: greed vs common sense (including social responsibility, environmental impact. human beings well-being/personal health etc.), greed seems to always win under the present rules, this needs to change.
Let's not forget that greed alone is a false economy even for tax payers as the public costs associated to excessive unregulated greed is immense for society ranging from mental health to work-related stress --->NHS additional costs. social impact and more implications.
There is no point in being a very stressed and over-worked young pilot on 50-80K p.a. when in a few years we will end up all highly stressed/ill and surrounded by millions of unemployed without homes ready to riot against us. We have just seen it happening somewhere else and it could have easily got out of control.
I am not a socialist at all, rather the opposite to be honest, however I strongly believe that this unprecedented crisis s proving that we must change the rules of unregulated greedy capitalism or it we all will end up in a very uncomfortable situation.
Many of us would love to go part time, yes less money but much happier & healthy in the end. Much safer too. This concept should apply to all, including WW and AC,.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 552
Re pensions and how they are funded. It varies from country to country so one size does not fit all. If the fund is fully funded and the company folds, that is one senario, If on the other hand the fund is not fully funded then the pay out could be reduced or the fund might have first rights on the breakup value of the airline or be left sucking the hind tit. Again it all depends upon the laws of the country in which the pension / funds are vested.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Dorset
Posts: 357
Draft report and press statement was issued to the media last night with a reporting restriction until midnight tonight when the report will be published. I imagine the BA press office has been a very busy place today.
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: London
Posts: 91
Fair play to the cabin crew, their Union’s nuclear response may force BA to engage after all, MP’s from all sides have been tweeting about the report. The pilots owe their colleagues an apology, should have fought this together.
I’m not surprised at this government lack of resolve and completely shambolic response to this crisis, I’m just surprised that so many pilots and crew still support the Tories when they were ALWAYS pro corporations. I still remember David Cameron telling Cabin crew to get back to work in the 2010 strikes, completely undermining the effort. Naïveté to Believe Boris gives a dam about the average worker...
I hope they win this or find some sort of compromise, for my friends who are about to lose their jobs!
I’m not surprised at this government lack of resolve and completely shambolic response to this crisis, I’m just surprised that so many pilots and crew still support the Tories when they were ALWAYS pro corporations. I still remember David Cameron telling Cabin crew to get back to work in the 2010 strikes, completely undermining the effort. Naïveté to Believe Boris gives a dam about the average worker...
I hope they win this or find some sort of compromise, for my friends who are about to lose their jobs!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 35
Posts: 73
[QUOTE=Raph737;10809614]Fair play to the cabin crew, their Union’s nuclear response may force BA to engage after all, MP’s from all sides have been tweeting about the report. The pilots owe their colleagues an apology, should have fought this together.
All the pilots I know back cabin crew, long serving professionals who make BA. Pilots have been following in accordance with the union. To suggest flight deck owe cabin crew an apology is unfounded and leads to more division.
All the pilots I know back cabin crew, long serving professionals who make BA. Pilots have been following in accordance with the union. To suggest flight deck owe cabin crew an apology is unfounded and leads to more division.
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by Raph737
Fair play to the cabin crew, their Union’s nuclear response may force BA to engage after all, MP’s from all sides have been tweeting about the report. The pilots owe their colleagues an apology, should have fought this together.
Originally Posted by Raph737
I’m not surprised at this government lack of resolve and completely shambolic response to this crisis, I’m just surprised that so many pilots and crew still support the Tories when they were ALWAYS pro corporations.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: home
Posts: 1,516
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Springfield
Posts: 43
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,999
Originally Posted by FACoff
Just to be clear, BA pilots went on strike over the "joint" pay claim last year, when both GMB and Unite capitulated at the first hurdle. I respect our colleagues and applaud them for what they're doing but we certainly don't owe them any apologies.
Anyhow next we have to wait and see whether said campaign and the MPs comments' have any effect at all on BA.
