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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 8th Jun 2020, 08:33
  #801 (permalink)  
 
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Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
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British Airways - A once Great Airline.

If this management imposition goes ahead, I will never fly with this airline ever again!

It would seem to me, it would be best that all BA Staff reject new BA Imposed new contracts until management is forced to renegotiate realistic terms and conditions to all staff. It is important that you all remain united or fail!
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 08:37
  #802 (permalink)  
 
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What about the training costs of keeping everyone current?
They still exist. But there will be no recruitment type rating costs for several years.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 09:16
  #803 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TyroPicard View Post
They still exist. But there will be no recruitment type rating costs for several years.
These are all great ideas but we are gonna go the same way the miners went. The airlines won’t care about needing to up the training load, they just want maximum savings now and future management teams can deal with the repercussions. Besides, as long as they all do the same then they don’t need to worry about a rival outexpanding them and seizing the market as they will all face the up scaling issues simultaneously.
Its all about to get really ugly and it will, as ever, be every person for themselves - most contracts grabbed and signed before they hit the doormat if history is anything to go by...

(there will possibly be a few who for moral or other reasons refuse to sign, and their slot will be gratefully snapped up by some poor soul who was about to be made redundant)
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 10:18
  #804 (permalink)  
 
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The Job cuts could be at least scaled back if the UK Transport and Aviation secretaries had got their act together and mapped a clear route forward

The travelling public still have no idea of any new airport procedures ,estimated new check in times ,on board changes to seating and arrival procedures.

Confidence in flying is probally at an all time low.

It's the travelling public that will keep pilots in seats - no one else
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 10:47
  #805 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TyroPicard View Post
Hereís a radical idea which could also apply to a number of other industries.

1. Wake up and smell the coffee; the world is a different place for several years.
2. No redundancies.
3. Everybody takes a 30% pay cut. (It could be 40%, or 25%, thatís a guess, a starting figure).
4. Everybodyís working hours are cut by the same amount.

Result: everyone stays current and employed, (and well rested). As traffic increases so can working hours and pay levels.
Problem is whilst the workforce might accept that in the short term the management only seem to want points 1 and 3.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 11:46
  #806 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stormin norman View Post
The Job cuts could be at least scaled back if the UK Transport and Aviation secretaries had got their act together and mapped a clear route forward
That would be Grant Shapps and, er, Grant Shapps.

Whether he/they has his/their act together is a moot point.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 12:24
  #807 (permalink)  
 
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If you disagree with the outrageous, unethical changes that BA management are making with complete disregard for hard working, loyal employees then please consider signing this petition. It is now abundantly clear that BA/IAG have no concern at all to listen to either their unions or the government. Maybe, just maybe they will listen to their customers. Quite honestly I don't think BA will change its course of action on the fire & rehire plans unless their Customers take a stand.

https://www.change.org/p/alex-cruz-b...9-07372c171762
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 12:45
  #808 (permalink)  
 
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How will they ever keep a straight face interviewing in the future when asking ďtell me why you want to work for BAĒ
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 12:59
  #809 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TyroPicard View Post
Hereís a radical idea which could also apply to a number of other industries.

1. Wake up and smell the coffee; the world is a different place for several years.
2. No redundancies.
3. Everybody takes a 30% pay cut. (It could be 40%, or 25%, thatís a guess, a starting figure).
4. Everybodyís working hours are cut by the same amount.

Result: everyone stays current and employed, (and well rested). As traffic increases so can working hours and pay levels.
I think its not a bad idea although I believe that the hidden costs would mean that the pay cuts would need to be around 50% as they are currently at Emirates.

But why have the unions not proposed this? - it would solve the redundancy issue and protect jobs and take away the issue over the changes in contract. Perhaps one reason is that it might not be seen as fair to some groups of employees?. If you are CC on a legacy contract and earning £60k then a 50% cut to a take home of £30k is no problem - however if you are CC on a Mixed Fleet contract then a 50% cut to your current £25k pay is only going to leave you with £12,500 pa.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 15:26
  #810 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
But why have the unions not proposed this? - it would solve the redundancy issue and protect jobs and take away the issue over the changes in contract. Perhaps one reason is that it might not be seen as fair to some groups of employees?. If you are CC on a legacy contract and earning £60k then a 50% cut to a take home of £30k is no problem - however if you are CC on a Mixed Fleet contract then a 50% cut to your current £25k pay is only going to leave you with £12,500 pa.
The CC Unions? As in Unite/BASSA? Because AFAIK the rumour is they simply refused right from the outset to get involved in any negotiations with BA.

Can anyone confirm/deny?
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 15:40
  #811 (permalink)  
 
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Nobox HR is recruiting A320 FO/Capt for an European client, to start ops in the UK and Spain during winter 2020.

Guess that those Gatwick slots should go to Vueling? Cynical move if itís Vueling, doubt they will disclose who the client is...
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 16:08
  #812 (permalink)  

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Perhaps the management is not fighting yesterday's war, i.e. COVID but rather the future lean Wizzair, 25% trimmed Ryanair, and the KLM-AF + LH mainland behemoths. Targeting not this season's cash flow, but the business' crew cost above the shrinking market share.

Ceterum censeo, UK should have a bill to disallow access to the market for any airline that runs a self-employed, social contribution evading, pilot contract scheme. Give your beancounters the resources to feed you, 35% is not a small fraction.
(the cost-saving they achieve without proper employment). This time is as good as any, such a rule could easily be attached to whatever emerges at the end of this.

Raph737 Exactly that, target the competition against which Vuelig's has been created, and perhaps this dog-eat-dog within IAG would cease. As hated as they are, I®ll take my bets AC and WW do not intend to piss of staff that is hard to replace.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 16:09
  #813 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Raph737 View Post
Nobox HR is recruiting A320 FO/Capt for an European client, to start ops in the UK and Spain during winter 2020.

Guess that those Gatwick slots should go to Vueling? Cynical move if itís Vueling, doubt they will disclose who the client is...
Nobox HR appear to be recruiting for Gowair, so not related to IAG in any way. See the end of this earlier thread:

Blue Panorama recruiting

ďA friend of mine applied via Nobox, apparently itís for Gowair based in Madrid, no mention of a U.K. Airline/base despite it being advertised.

Seasonal contract November-April.Ē
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 16:52
  #814 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TyroPicard View Post
Hereís a radical idea which could also apply to a number of other industries.

1. Wake up and smell the coffee; the world is a different place for several years.
2. No redundancies.
3. Everybody takes a 30% pay cut. (It could be 40%, or 25%, thatís a guess, a starting figure).
4. Everybodyís working hours are cut by the same amount.

Result: everyone stays current and employed, (and well rested). As traffic increases so can working hours and pay levels.
3 and 4 have been suggested many times and raised to MPs as a reasonable solution.
BALPA are the only engaged union so CC unions not in place to drive through this an option.
There appears no appetite for this at all as a solution for pilots. Reason......it does not come close to satisfying BA managementís true objectives.....to rid them of PP24 and smash terms to the floor for ever.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 16:54
  #815 (permalink)  
 
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As an ex-Laker DC-10 captain who had his life ripped apart by Lord King and his merry men, I am finding this current BA situation quite fascinating.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 17:20
  #816 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JW411 View Post
As an ex-Laker DC-10 captain who had his life ripped apart by Lord King and his merry men, I am finding this current BA situation quite fascinating.
Dare I ask is that is "fascinating" spelt the German way, beginning with sch or are you empathising with those who weren't at BA (in fact possibly weren't born) when Lord King was in charge.

I hope it's the later.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 18:25
  #817 (permalink)  
 
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On LBC Iíve just heard they will be looking at the airline industry at 8pm tonight. WW will be on and they want people to phone in. Great opportunity to ask about their ethics with it going out live across the nation.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 21:19
  #818 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
The CC Unions? As in Unite/BASSA? Because AFAIK the rumour is they simply refused right from the outset to get involved in any negotiations with BA.

Can anyone confirm/deny?
Unite have been invited to consultations not negotiations. A company issuing section 188 notices merely has to consult, it does not have to agree with other points or negotiate a settlement. Having consulted, the company is free to go in its intended direction.

Unite want to enter negotiations and require the Ďloaded guní 188 to be rescinded so that negotiations can take place. Whilst not paying any attention to consultations a company must show that it has entered meaningful consultations. Unite believe that engaging with BA at present will allow BA to demonstrate that meaningful consultations took place. This is why unite have not sat down with BA.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 21:38
  #819 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PC767 View Post
This is why unite have not sat down with BA.
Thanks for the full explanation and clarification.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 00:38
  #820 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stone Cold II View Post
On LBC Iíve just heard they will be looking at the airline industry at 8pm tonight. WW will be on and they want people to phone in. Great opportunity to ask about their ethics with it going out live across the nation.
It was a good program, I thought the GMB rep was extremly articulate and put the points across well.
When questioned Walsh said that he really didn't expect redundancy notices to be going out on the 15th of June. He wouldn't elaborate.
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