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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 29th May 2020, 22:26
  #681 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
I hate to get in the way of a good rant but I'm not sure you can draw that conclusion Have you actually paused for breath and read exactly what J T wrote?
but for the record I have nothing to do with BA or IAG or any other management.
What did I miss?
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Old 29th May 2020, 23:48
  #682 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
What did I miss?
"I'm nout to do with BA, merely an interested party. "
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Old 30th May 2020, 00:06
  #683 (permalink)  

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M.Mouse , could you state, for the record, which sections of the work force are NOT being affected by this situation? I have tried to find out for myself but from Flight/Cabin Crew to Contact Centres, Engineering, Check In etc all seem to be affected.
Everyone is being affected but not everyone is having a new contract forced upon them, pilots are one group.

The group which I know for certain are being hit hard, and in a totally immoral way, is legacy cabin crew. The rumours, exaggerated information and plain rubbish being publicised is, in my view, harming their cause. I have several very good friends who are legacy cabin crew. One couple are worried sick that their income is going to be cut by a very large percentage if and when they are offered the 'take it or leave it' new contract.

It is arguable that the legacy crew have had it very good for a long time but with the advent of MF after the last disastrous cabin crew strike (where UNITE were treating the return of staff travel to strikers as if it was some sort of victory!) the legacy crew were disappearing through natural wastage. What BA is intent on doing now is ridding themselves of the remaining legacy crew. It is immoral and wrong.

UNITE are a disgraceful waste of space. They could not negotiate their way out of a paper bag. Every dispute in the past years that I can remember has been an utter disaster for cabin crew. Their current lack of performance would indicate that not much has changed.
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Old 30th May 2020, 06:56
  #684 (permalink)  
 
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IMHO it is vital that as many of the pilot community are retained whilst collectively taking a % deduction of salary in case there is a second lockdown in which CR would be inevitable.
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Old 30th May 2020, 08:19
  #685 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
What did I miss?
Ive made the phrase simpler for you, not BA management or IAG management or any other management.
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Old 30th May 2020, 09:07
  #686 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by M.Mouse View Post
The group which I know for certain are being hit hard, and in a totally immoral way, is legacy cabin crew. The rumours, exaggerated information and plain rubbish being publicised is, in my view, harming their cause..
Very much agree...
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Old 30th May 2020, 09:09
  #687 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stick Flying View Post
If you don't want comments from interested outsiders I'd suggest moving to a company only forum.
That is true but Id also suggest that interested outsiders on an airline specific thread then have an obligation to be well informed and stick to facts when discussing a topic with people who are likely to be armed with the actual information. There are a large number of posts that dont fit that criteria.

(Not picking out you or any other individual just saying that would be generally good practice).
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:02
  #688 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by M.Mouse View Post
Everyone is being affected but not everyone is having a new contract forced upon them, pilots are one group.

The group which I know for certain are being hit hard, and in a totally immoral way, is legacy cabin crew. The rumours, exaggerated information and plain rubbish being publicised is, in my view, harming their cause. I have several very good friends who are legacy cabin crew. One couple are worried sick that their income is going to be cut by a very large percentage if and when they are offered the 'take it or leave it' new contract.

It is arguable that the legacy crew have had it very good for a long time but with the advent of MF after the last disastrous cabin crew strike (where UNITE were treating the return of staff travel to strikers as if it was some sort of victory!) the legacy crew were disappearing through natural wastage. What BA is intent on doing now is ridding themselves of the remaining legacy crew. It is immoral and wrong.

UNITE are a disgraceful waste of space. They could not negotiate their way out of a paper bag. Every dispute in the past years that I can remember has been an utter disaster for cabin crew. Their current lack of performance would indicate that not much has changed.

How do you know pilots are not having a new contract forced upon them?

It is highly likely that, to mitigate any CR, that pilots will have to take massive permanent changes in the Memorandum of Agreement, effectively changing the contracts.

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Old 30th May 2020, 11:13
  #689 (permalink)  

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There will, I am sure, be changes like every other negotiation but not a wholesale change of contract that is being proposed for legacy CC. i.e. their current fleets disappear, the type of flying changes from LH or SH to a mix of both, salary structure changes massively, allowances rationalised, ranks disappear. That is what I see as a complete new contract and not just a tweaking of some Ts & Cs.

As far as I am aware there is no proposal to change pilot's salary scales or career path, etc.
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Old 30th May 2020, 14:25
  #690 (permalink)  
 
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M.Mouse, how do you know that? We have no details as of yet. The union and company are talking to reach an agreement or a best compromise. It may well be that pilots have some choices to make. Maybe we won’t have a choice, but I would think everything is on the table for negotiation with the aim of eliminating CR.

Having had so much time off I have learnt a bit about myself. No way could I not work if I did not need too (retirement is different) but I have also realised that I have put too much emphasis on the bottom RHS of my pay slip over my work life balance. Part time is something I would very much be interested in now.
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Old 30th May 2020, 14:37
  #691 (permalink)  
 
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I think realistically the obvious tweaks (the ones we know theyre after) will be vanity moves on LH will disappear coupled with airport hotels (we have to fight that one very hard but we all know its coming). Id be surprised to see changes to the salary scales, particularly as were not seriously out of whack with the competition and in many cases substantially below.
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Old 30th May 2020, 14:56
  #692 (permalink)  
 
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I can see them wanting to harmonise it and or remove increments. That’s just my thought and I have no opinion on it. The rest will probably come down to us as a group.
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Old 30th May 2020, 17:11
  #693 (permalink)  
 
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Airport hotels saves peanuts (and in many cases they are more expensive).
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Old 30th May 2020, 17:31
  #694 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Plastic787 View Post
I think realistically the obvious tweaks (the ones we know theyre after) will be vanity moves on LH will disappear coupled with airport hotels (we have to fight that one very hard but we all know its coming). Id be surprised to see changes to the salary scales, particularly as were not seriously out of whack with the competition and in many cases substantially below.
"Vanity moves"? Fortunately the MOA specifies LIFO+ otherwise a DEP who joins on a fleet like the 747 could be stuck there constantly looking over his/her shoulder at the risk of compulsory redundancy? When more normal conditions inevitably resume then who would want to join on an older fleet with the prospect of many years waiting for a command, possibly also for SH?
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Old 30th May 2020, 17:50
  #695 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
Airport hotels saves peanuts (and in many cases they are more expensive).

Correct.
And they are probably too noisy for undisturbed rest.
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Old 30th May 2020, 17:58
  #696 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pickled View Post
"Vanity moves?
We know theres a contingent who chase routes (or golf courses) every four years via Priam. Granted its not a huge amount of pilots doing it but you can imagine how management feel about having to foot the bill for it. We saw during the strikes its clearly firmly on their agenda seeing as it was one of the punishment items for the naughty #600.

With regards to airport hotels being more expensive we like to claim that but Id be surprised. After all most of the easyJet hotels were at the airport or in the middle of nowhere.
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Old 30th May 2020, 19:51
  #697 (permalink)  
 
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I promise you airport hotels are frequently more expensive (those of a reasonable standard to get undisturbed rest). Those few nights tops with EZY are frequently split duties so proximity to airport is a must. BA are not going to expend too much effort over airport v downtown to save chicken feed s.
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Old 30th May 2020, 20:35
  #698 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
BA are not going to expend too much effort over airport v downtown to save chicken feed s.
May I introduce you to Alex Cruz and Willie Walsh... ;-)
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Old 30th May 2020, 22:36
  #699 (permalink)  
 
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We know theres a contingent who chase routes (or golf courses) every four years via Priam
You might disagree with it but being able to change fleet and experience a completely new set of destinations and a new aircraft every five years is one of the main attractions of working for BA.
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Old 31st May 2020, 08:20
  #700 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
I promise you airport hotels are frequently more expensive (those of a reasonable standard to get undisturbed rest). Those few nights tops with EZY are frequently split duties so proximity to airport is a must. BA are not going to expend too much effort over airport v downtown to save chicken feed ’s.
"Marginal gains"..TOM..marginal gains..Plastic787 is absolutely right in "introducing" you to the key players - WW has a whole department dedicated to "marginal gains" when it comes to hotel contracts..in fact "marginal gains" is probably what has led to that very department being based in Poland rather than Spain or the UK.

As for the "undisturbed rest" bit..well in order to prove to BA's satisfaction that your rest has been disturbed the union reps will tell you you need to take robust action...given the reluctance (historically at least) of many people to take that option if BA think they can get away with putting crews in a less than ideal hotel, at the airport or otherwise, they will...

In short I would say hotel standards are permanently on the company's "hit" list..
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