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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 28th May 2020, 11:45
  #661 (permalink)  

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It then goes onto say that BA have then met all of their legal obligations and sack it's entire workforce on 15th June and then re-employ who they wish. Is this accurate?
Not accurate at all despite what some on here keep saying.

Contracts are being changed but not across the board.
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Old 28th May 2020, 12:18
  #662 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlipFlapFlop View Post
Yes.....but if the numbers are not significantly far apart then the moral justification for CR is destroyed.
Completly agree with you on that.
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Old 28th May 2020, 12:38
  #663 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Northern Monkey View Post
This to me is one of the more interesting comments on this thread which seemed to be glossed over when it was posted. The retraining bill if BA simply dismiss hundreds of the most junior pilots will be absolutely gigantic. I don't see this being a path BA will necessarily wish to go down. Particularly if temporary measures can be found which allow a swift return to flying when demand recovers.

I'd certainly vote in favour of any part time option, or indeed any option presented which saved jobs. I'm sure most of us would.
I fully agree. The training bill and inability to ramp up capacity quickly enough if the situation so requires can obliterate any savings from retrenchment.

And there's even more to it. Although someone might not like this one, there's one awkward truth standing against letting go of the most junior birdmen out there... The future of any given company, aviation and society in general is in the hands of those with 30-40 years of working life ahead of them. Sure, those with a couple of years left to retirement have their own highly valuable contribution to the system by virtue of their experience - but time keeps ticking away and in another couple of years getting on the wrong side of 65 will bring their careers to an end. And it will be the time for the ones whose jobs are currently at the greatest risk to take over. And I reckon that the transition will be far smoother and safer if said individuals spend the coming years flying part-time on a reduced income rather than struggling for survival somewhere completely out of aviation.
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Old 28th May 2020, 16:06
  #664 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bridchen View Post
I was in touch with an old friend from years ago, yesterday, who's in BA engineering. BA engineering do all Vueling and Iberia Express maintenance at line stations for just about no cost to those airlines. BA taking the cash hit again, which then masquerades as increased profits to the Spanish carriers.
As has been said, er, this is nonsense.
BA's Line Maintenance handle almost all IAG airlines including Vuelling, Iberia/Iberia Express and Aer lingus. They all pay BA for this service. Each line station takes this as revenue which offsets station costs. It's a win win all round. The money stays within the IAG domain but all parties pay. If anything, BA are profiting from it. There are reciprical services offered by Aer Lingus and Iberia.

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Old 28th May 2020, 16:10
  #665 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by M.Mouse View Post
Not accurate at all despite what some on here keep saying.

Contracts are being changed but not across the board.
Could you elaborate on this? I only ask as the majority of staff have been under the impression that ALL staff are going to be made redundant on 15th June and those not made compulsory redundant (the 12000) will be offered new (inferior) contracts.
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Old 29th May 2020, 08:59
  #666 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Could you elaborate on this? I only ask as the majority of staff have been under the impression that ALL staff are going to be made redundant on 15th June and those not made compulsory redundant (the 12000) will be offered new (inferior) contracts.
One only has to engage ones brain for a few moments to realise this is rubbish. BA is not going to sack everyone, they would need cause. BA is not going to make everyone redundant, they are doing this to save money not blow a load unnecessarily on non required redundancy pay. Contracts may change but only those who do not accept the new contract or who fail to be accepted for the new contract will be made redundant. EVERYONEs’ job is at risk, that is whole point of the S188 letters, but only c12000 (Far fewer than the unions would have you believe) will be made redundant,

Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 29th May 2020 at 13:32.
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Old 29th May 2020, 09:45
  #667 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Juan Tugoh View Post
One only has to engage ones brain for a few moments to realise this is rubbish. BA is not going to sack everyone, they would need cause. BA is not going to make everyone redundant, they are doing this to save money not blow a load unnecessarily on non required redundancy pay. Contracts may change but only those who do not accept the new contract or who fail to be accepted for the new contract will be made redundant. EVERYONEs’ job is at risk, that is whole point of the S188 letters, but only c12000 (Far fewer if the unions would engage) will be made redundant,

Agreed.
Despite trashing the brand further in the race to the bottom, IAG have shareholders (eg.Qatar 25%) who would not like their investment put at too much risk.
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Old 29th May 2020, 11:59
  #668 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed, IAG seemed to have singled out BA only thus far! Why?
They're not really after flight crew, they want to use this situation as an excuse to remove old contracts across the longer serving cabin crew population.
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Old 29th May 2020, 12:48
  #669 (permalink)  
 
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just sack the managment! How disgusting!
https://www.theguardian.com/business...oyees-heathrow
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Old 29th May 2020, 13:10
  #670 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
I only ask as the majority of staff have been under the impression that ALL staff are going to be made redundant on 15th June and those not made compulsory redundant (the 12000) will be offered new (inferior) contracts.
A certain amount of effort has been made by some parties involved in this to create that impression..

I think Juan has provided a more accurate description of the reality.

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Old 29th May 2020, 14:45
  #671 (permalink)  
 
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Now that is more what I suspected. Those that are promoting the idea that the whole workforce is being made redundant and some chosen ones rehired are doing their cause more harm than good. If they actually stated that the company are trying to force new contracts or be made redundant is underhand enough to get support from outsiders. But false facts create concern that there may be more to it than is being let on.
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Old 29th May 2020, 15:43
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Semantics.

The effect is the same.
Your fired unless you sign this new shiny contract.
It is spin to suggest anything else.

So what would happen if the remaining staff who get offered a new contract turn around and tell BA to shove it? Is that it? BA ceases ops?

Looks like this thread has been infiltrated by the management spokespersons towing the company line.
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Old 29th May 2020, 17:10
  #673 (permalink)  
 
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If that was aimed at me you are completely wrong on all accounts. I'm nout to do with BA, merely an interested party. Semantics? Maybe but unfortunately quite wrong facts. Trouble is when you are trying to drum up support the correct facts are better than lies. Just my 2 pence worth.
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Old 29th May 2020, 20:40
  #674 (permalink)  
 
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Stick Flying, no far from it, I thought your reply was extremely measured and inteligent.
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Old 29th May 2020, 20:48
  #675 (permalink)  
 
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Talking

Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Stick Flying, no far from it, I thought your reply was extremely measured and inteligent.
Apologies TURIN. This is the problem with threads diving off in many directions. And I'm getting older and struggling to keep up :-)
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Old 29th May 2020, 20:52
  #676 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
Semantics.

The effect is the same.
Your fired unless you sign this new shiny contract.
It is spin to suggest anything else.

So what would happen if the remaining staff who get offered a new contract turn around and tell BA to shove it? Is that it? BA ceases ops?

Looks like this thread has been infiltrated by the management spokespersons towing the company line.
Sacked or made redundant there is a difference of several thousands of pounds. Sure you are still out of a job, but the unions could have some impact on that but are choosing not to. If you think I am a management stooge, crack on, it’s no skin off my nose what you think, but for the record I have nothing to do with BA management or IAG management or any other management. But if you are trying to shut down the debate by casting names and trying to “other” someone because they disagree with your world view, then jog on.

Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 30th May 2020 at 08:16.
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Old 29th May 2020, 21:25
  #677 (permalink)  

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Your fired unless you sign this new shiny contract.
My point is that that situation is only being applied to SOME sections of the workforce, not all.

The amount of mis-information being spread is actually detrimental to those under threat because it is exaggerating the situation. The situation is diabolical enough to garner sympathy on its own without being loose with the facts.
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Old 29th May 2020, 21:53
  #678 (permalink)  
 
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This thread has lost its way. Lots of comment from people with nothing to do with BA or IAG and not many pilots. TURIN getting bashed for not a lot. Bottom line, 12000 jobs to go from BA (only 12000 in the words of one external commentator above).....it is semantics as to what name you give the process. Cabin crew are effectively having their contracts thrown away and many will not get a new one. Those that do will see somewhat worse terms than the one chucked in the bin.
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Old 29th May 2020, 22:09
  #679 (permalink)  
 
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I have just realised I have commited a most heinous crime.
You're not your.

My apologies.

Juan Tugoh, what on earth are you doing on this thread? No link to BA or IAG, are you just here to get under the skin of people who are going through a bloody tough time at the moment? If so, perhaaps it is you that needs to get the running shoes on.

M.Mouse , could you state, for the record, which sections of the work force are NOT being affected by this situation? I have tried to find out for myself but from Flight/Cabin Crew to Contact Centres, Engineering, Check In etc all seem to be affected.
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Old 29th May 2020, 22:21
  #680 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
....Juan Tugoh, what on earth are you doing on this thread? No link to BA or IAG, are you just here...
.
I hate to get in the way of a good rant but I'm not sure you can draw that conclusion Have you actually paused for breath and read exactly what J T wrote?


FlipFlapFlop

Lots of comment from people with nothing to do with BA or IAG and not many pilots.
..Not sure how you've worked that out, I've been here long enough to recognise some of the "handles"(I've actually flown with M.Mouse) and I can confirm that there definitely lots of comments from people who are BA pilots - as far as I can tell non management.

Last edited by wiggy; 29th May 2020 at 22:40.
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