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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 27th May 2020, 18:44
  #641 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Icanseeclearly View Post
The upshot of that is there are about 450 FOs junior to me at LHR and about 100 LGW A320 FOs in the firing line if LIFO is used as the basis of redundancy (BALPAS preferred option) and lets say there is a 20% reduction in SH flying this equates to 400 type ratings / conversion courses needing to be done - the cost monetary wise and in lost productivity is astronomical, Time is the main problem here If BA can train at a rate of 30 a month (unlikely) it will still take a year to replace the lost FOs, by that stage the situation should be improving and pilots may be needed again or fleet moves happening. I just don’t see BA going for it.
This to me is one of the more interesting comments on this thread which seemed to be glossed over when it was posted. The retraining bill if BA simply dismiss hundreds of the most junior pilots will be absolutely gigantic. I don't see this being a path BA will necessarily wish to go down. Particularly if temporary measures can be found which allow a swift return to flying when demand recovers.

I'd certainly vote in favour of any part time option, or indeed any option presented which saved jobs. I'm sure most of us would.



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Old 27th May 2020, 19:28
  #642 (permalink)  
 
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Northern Monkey;

I think many seem to have missed this. I spoke with a trainer who said that if 500 needed to be retrained onto the baby bus it would take 3-4 years. BA want t’s & c’s. We all know this...
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Old 27th May 2020, 19:35
  #643 (permalink)  

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Also, the threat of having our contracts torn up and offered new contracts is universal. BALPA may well be negotiating, good luck to em I say, but the threat to them is the same.
You could not be more wrong.
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Old 27th May 2020, 19:39
  #644 (permalink)  
 
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As a temporary measure if folks worked 55% but got paid 50% then that would take out the argument of part timers being more expensive.
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Old 27th May 2020, 20:54
  #645 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ASRAAMTOO View Post
As a temporary measure if folks worked 55% but got paid 50% then that would take out the argument of part timers being more expensive.
Not the worse idea in the world but the problem there is the word "temporary"...
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Old 27th May 2020, 21:35
  #646 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by M.Mouse View Post
You could not be more wrong.
In what way?
Are pilots under greater threat? Or less?
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Old 27th May 2020, 22:18
  #647 (permalink)  
 
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We aim to protect employment until the end of 2021.’

Interesting article from a company with far less liquidity than IAG.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/05/25/...s-for-2-years/
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Old 28th May 2020, 07:01
  #648 (permalink)  
 
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So apologies for potentially being miles behind this story, but just read one of these points blogs (I know) a few minutes ago about lack of engagement with Unite and the GMB unions with IAG. Cruz is quoted that he wants to save as many jobs as possible and that the lack of this communication is damaging.

It then goes onto say that BA have then met all of their legal obligations and sack it's entire workforce on 15th June and then re-employ who they wish. Is this accurate?
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Old 28th May 2020, 07:18
  #649 (permalink)  
 
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Hi - that is essentially it. There is a lot more information on babetrayal.com, and if you look at Huw Merriman's Twitter, you will also find quite a few links on that. Thank you for at least taking the time to find out the facts. Unfortunately the press are mysteriously quiet on this, and unfavourable articles in most of the popular press disappear from search on Google.
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Old 28th May 2020, 07:24
  #650 (permalink)  
 
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I was in touch with an old friend from years ago, yesterday, who's in BA engineering. BA engineering do all Vueling and Iberia Express maintenance at line stations for just about no cost to those airlines. BA taking the cash hit again, which then masquerades as increased profits to the Spanish carriers.
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Old 28th May 2020, 07:41
  #651 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bridchen View Post
I was in touch with an old friend from years ago, yesterday, who's in BA engineering. BA engineering do all Vueling and Iberia Express maintenance at line stations for just about no cost to those airlines. BA taking the cash hit again, which then masquerades as increased profits to the Spanish carriers.
Simply bollocks

Stop looking south and blaming south. Airlines down south have their own problems. Not paying for maintenance is not one of them.
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Old 28th May 2020, 08:27
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What’s the latest on redundancy’s ? Is the pilot headcount still large ?
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Old 28th May 2020, 09:01
  #653 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bridchen View Post
unfavourable articles in most of the popular press disappear from search on Google.
Yeah, sure, you mean articles like this that I found using Google a few moments ago?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-HALF-PAY.html


https://www.theguardian.com/business...rms-union-says


Look, it could be grim enough as it is, but a lot of the public are vaguely onside and aware - there's absolutely no need to make it worse by starting to undermine employee/union credibility in the public eye by resorting to circulating conspiracy theories, and there's also no need for certain unions to p.. some people off by clogging up in-boxes with thinly disguised junk mail.

Last edited by wiggy; 28th May 2020 at 10:53.
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Old 28th May 2020, 09:19
  #654 (permalink)  
 
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What’s the latest on redundancy’s ? Is the pilot headcount still large ?
There have been no updates. That said, I believe that there will be an agreement in place to avoid CR. It is not in BA's interest to reduce its pilot workforce long term. Yes, it's a dire situation at the moment but things WILL recover. BA is in a decent position and will be very eager to recapture market share and capitalise on failures/temporary absences elsewhere.

BA spend a lot on recruiting its pilots. It invests hugely in their training. Why get rid of them to only have to recruit all over again. Its not a cheap process and we all know what a fussy bunch they are - it will take time.

At the pessimistic end, I see a case whereby if CR is required, those unfortunate may be put on some kind of future recall - at the pilot's choice, of course.
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Old 28th May 2020, 09:39
  #655 (permalink)  
 
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Everyone has a Retain vs Rehire cost .You can throw loyalty into the equation but it's the financial numbers that will dictate the outcome .
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Old 28th May 2020, 09:49
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Originally Posted by stormin norman View Post
Everyone has a Retain vs Rehire cost .You can throw loyalty into the equation but it's the financial numbers that will dictate the outcome .
Yes.....but if the numbers are not significantly far apart then the moral justification for CR is destroyed.
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Old 28th May 2020, 10:45
  #657 (permalink)  

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It then goes onto say that BA have then met all of their legal obligations and sack it's entire workforce on 15th June and then re-employ who they wish. Is this accurate?
Not accurate at all despite what some on here keep saying.

Contracts are being changed but not across the board.
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Old 28th May 2020, 11:18
  #658 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlipFlapFlop View Post
Yes.....but if the numbers are not significantly far apart then the moral justification for CR is destroyed.
Completly agree with you on that.
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Old 28th May 2020, 11:38
  #659 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Northern Monkey View Post
This to me is one of the more interesting comments on this thread which seemed to be glossed over when it was posted. The retraining bill if BA simply dismiss hundreds of the most junior pilots will be absolutely gigantic. I don't see this being a path BA will necessarily wish to go down. Particularly if temporary measures can be found which allow a swift return to flying when demand recovers.

I'd certainly vote in favour of any part time option, or indeed any option presented which saved jobs. I'm sure most of us would.
I fully agree. The training bill and inability to ramp up capacity quickly enough if the situation so requires can obliterate any savings from retrenchment.

And there's even more to it. Although someone might not like this one, there's one awkward truth standing against letting go of the most junior birdmen out there... The future of any given company, aviation and society in general is in the hands of those with 30-40 years of working life ahead of them. Sure, those with a couple of years left to retirement have their own highly valuable contribution to the system by virtue of their experience - but time keeps ticking away and in another couple of years getting on the wrong side of 65 will bring their careers to an end. And it will be the time for the ones whose jobs are currently at the greatest risk to take over. And I reckon that the transition will be far smoother and safer if said individuals spend the coming years flying part-time on a reduced income rather than struggling for survival somewhere completely out of aviation.
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Old 28th May 2020, 15:06
  #660 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bridchen View Post
I was in touch with an old friend from years ago, yesterday, who's in BA engineering. BA engineering do all Vueling and Iberia Express maintenance at line stations for just about no cost to those airlines. BA taking the cash hit again, which then masquerades as increased profits to the Spanish carriers.
As has been said, er, this is nonsense.
BA's Line Maintenance handle almost all IAG airlines including Vuelling, Iberia/Iberia Express and Aer lingus. They all pay BA for this service. Each line station takes this as revenue which offsets station costs. It's a win win all round. The money stays within the IAG domain but all parties pay. If anything, BA are profiting from it. There are reciprical services offered by Aer Lingus and Iberia.

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