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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 15th May 2020, 08:37
  #521 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 777JRM View Post
I know of a former FlyBe pilot who is now a Tesco delivery driver.
The peak hasn’t hit, yet.
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Old 15th May 2020, 10:21
  #522 (permalink)  
 
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salaries will be lower and the work/life balance will be worse (all my opinion - not fact). Market forces will see to this.
For the many not the few.
The few such as WW will still be multi-millionaires. This crises wil not effect them.
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Old 15th May 2020, 11:02
  #523 (permalink)  
 
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There are quite a lot of pilot multi millionaires (if you include pensions and houses) who will probably not fly commercially again. A fair few will not bother with the hassle of switching fleets at a late age. I switched from Boeing to Airbus in my late fifties and would not fancy doing it the other way. I am not making light of the upheaval but lots of us on here have had companies go bust, including no doubt plenty of unfortunates who thought they had found a safe billet at BA. My gut feel is that things will pick up again relatively quickly and there will be plenty of opportunities for the younger cohort with us oldies out of the way. The next few months are going to be tough and it will be interesting to see how the various HR departments approach this. But I suspect the medium term future is brighter for 787 co-pilots than for A380 captains.
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Old 15th May 2020, 11:42
  #524 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 777JRM View Post
I know of a former FlyBe pilot who is now a Tesco delivery driver.
the issue is, it’s very easy to say “I’ll go work for Tesco until the industry picks up again”, but what if it doesn’t (or at least not to the level where you can go back into a job)? Your only choice then is stick with Tesco or career change. At that point, you’re back to the (new industry equivalent) of being a fATPL with a rating but no hours, competing not just against the same but all those who were made redundant from other companies & have lots of experience.

Its bleak.
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Old 15th May 2020, 11:59
  #525 (permalink)  
 
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I prefer to take Baldeep’s message away with me and try and look on the bright side. There will be massive changes coming for all in the next few months, but things will improve economically, and it may be the impetus some needed to make the jump or change career. Having had over 30 years in this industry, I know I don’t want my kids coming into this, unless it’s as CEO. I think it may well do some of the younger staff a favour if it means they are forced to change industry. As we all say, this job ain’t what it used to be. I certainly haven’t read of any Doctors, lawyers or accountants being laid off yet.
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Old 15th May 2020, 13:38
  #526 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lederhosen View Post
There are quite a lot of pilot multi millionaires (if you include pensions and houses) who will probably not fly commercially again. A fair few will not bother with the hassle of switching fleets at a late age. I switched from Boeing to Airbus in my late fifties and would not fancy doing it the other way. I am not making light of the upheaval but lots of us on here have had companies go bust, including no doubt plenty of unfortunates who thought they had found a safe billet at BA. My gut feel is that things will pick up again relatively quickly and there will be plenty of opportunities for the younger cohort with us oldies out of the way. The next few months are going to be tough and it will be interesting to see how the various HR departments approach this. But I suspect the medium term future is brighter for 787 co-pilots than for A380 captains.

Where are these ‘quite a lot of pilot multi-millionaires’? Include their huge mortgages? Pension cap?

The only millionaires are in the BAMC (BA Millionaires Club) whose jobs are safe!
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Old 15th May 2020, 14:20
  #527 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Baldeep Inminj View Post
This last sentence highlights the mindset that so many have, and that they may wish to try to change. I doubt many of your colleagues will be out of work for long at all. They are most likely intelligent and driven people and they are unlikely to struggle to find work ... but it probably won’t be in aviation.

I think that is a very valid and fair point - good job.
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Old 15th May 2020, 14:35
  #528 (permalink)  
 
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This thread started off initially with a lot of good debate. Now, is it just my feeling or is it now littered with mainly (usual suspects) have been pilots/wannabe pilots/armchair pilots, acting as resident doom-mongers and some, seemingly getting kicks out of acting in such a way? If this applies to you, you may be well advised to find a hobby/pass time outside of the house.
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Old 15th May 2020, 15:32
  #529 (permalink)  
 
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I am sorry if it may be unrelated, but is it in the realm of possibilities that IAG might use Vueling in Gatwick to a bigger extent to compete with Wizz and easyJet?
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Old 15th May 2020, 16:47
  #530 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Banana Joe View Post
I am sorry if it may be unrelated, but is it in the realm of possibilities that IAG might use Vueling in Gatwick to a bigger extent to compete with Wizz and easyJet?
Here we go.. Do you live in a parallel universe where there’s no Coronavirus or one where Vueling are completely immune to its effects? I think they’ve got their own problems at the moment to be honest.

(Ignoring all of that Vueling and Level - whoever you choose from the IAG stable - have absolutely zero brand awareness in the U.K. Level to Vienna was an absolute disaster for instance. You might as well give up and hand Gatwick on a plate to easyJet.)
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Old 15th May 2020, 17:03
  #531 (permalink)  
 
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God forbid if someone is not pessimistic, huh?
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Old 15th May 2020, 17:19
  #532 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Plastic787 View Post
Here we go.. Do you live in a parallel universe where there’s no Coronavirus or one where Vueling are completely immune to its effects? I think they’ve got their own problems at the moment to be honest.

(Ignoring all of that Vueling and Level - whoever you choose from the IAG stable - have absolutely zero brand awareness in the U.K. Level to Vienna was an absolute disaster for instance. You might as well give up and hand Gatwick on a plate to easyJet.)
A BA manager has specifically mentioned the possibility of another IAG company moving into LGW instead of BA. I doubt WW really cares what brand is there as long the money is kept within the group.
All WW cares about is lowering costs. If that means moving Level or Vueling to LGW then I’m sure he’ll do it. For the unfortunate pilots selected for redundancy the offer could be we are closing LGW, there is a job with another IAG company if want it... have they then not fulfilled their requirement to find another position?
I think of you turned that offer down you’d not be in a great position. As for the passengers I’m sure that joe public will not be bothered if the ticket price is correct whoever gets in. If it’s partnered correctly and still sold via the BA website WW and IAG will be laughing as they’ll offer a cheaper product at the same price.
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Old 15th May 2020, 17:26
  #533 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Banana Joe View Post
I am sorry if it may be unrelated, but is it in the realm of possibilities that IAG might use Vueling in Gatwick to a bigger extent to compete with Wizz and easyJet?
We all know IAG’s main aim is to have the lowest cost base possible. Moving in vueling would really only lower staff costs, and LGW already has the cheapest flight and cabin crew in BA so I’m not sure how much they could actually save.

Pre covid, most routes were also operated by easy or TUI but were still full despite the higher prices. This is most likely down to a perception that the product is better/worth the extra money or a loyalty to flying with BA.

Moving in an airline with a poor reputation in the UK at a time when they already bring in the least profit of all the opcos would be a massive gamble. In my opinion, unless they can massively undercut the opposition they would be quickly wiped out by easyJet et al.

I don’t doubt some bright spark eyeing a promotion will have suggested it though, and in spite of all the above wouldn’t be that surprised to see it happen.
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Old 15th May 2020, 17:27
  #534 (permalink)  
 
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Why would WW not be focusec on making more money - that’s his job ! He is not a charity leader.....
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Old 15th May 2020, 17:30
  #535 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RJ100 View Post
A BA manager has specifically mentioned the possibility of another IAG company moving into LGW instead of BA. I doubt WW really cares what brand is there as long the money is kept within the group.
All WW cares about is lowering costs. If that means moving Level or Vueling to LGW then I’m sure he’ll do it. For the unfortunate pilots selected for redundancy the offer could be we are closing LGW, there is a job with another IAG company if want it... have they then not fulfilled their requirement to find another position?
I think of you turned that offer down you’d not be in a great position. As for the passengers I’m sure that joe public will not be bothered if the ticket price is correct whoever gets in. If it’s partnered correctly and still sold via the BA website WW and IAG will be laughing as they’ll offer a cheaper product at the same price.
Which manager would that be then? Because when the COO Jason Mahoney was directly asked this question his answer was the same as mine ie “they have problems of their own”. Willie has directly stated that he wants BA to remain at Gatwick, not IAG but BA themselves. He then had to remind himself to say “subject to consultation” a couple of times as he suddenly remembered he’d undermined his negotiating position. What’s going on is coercion tactics to strongarm changes in Ts & Cs under threat of a base closure.

Good job you’re not in charge of commercial decisions at IAG because brand awareness is very important to IAG and specifically in relation to BA. There does exist a very strong client base at Gatwick who with minimal price differential with easy will book specifically with us because it’s BA. Nobody has a clue who Vueling or Level are in the U.K. If BA totally tank versus easyJet at Gatwick then that damages the viability of their short haul network at Heathrow. They’re not likely to have forgotten that the Level experiment in Gatwick was an utter failure.
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Old 15th May 2020, 17:39
  #536 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TOM100 View Post
Why would WW not be focusec on making more money - that’s his job ! He is not a charity leader.....
BA Gatwick does make money. Vueling cost may be lower but likely so will the income.
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Old 15th May 2020, 18:20
  #537 (permalink)  
 
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A BA manager has specifically mentioned the possibility of another IAG company moving into LGW instead of BA. I doubt WW really cares what brand is there as long the money is kept within the group.
Would have thought they'd just use Vueling and Level in BA colours. Any existing protection against doing this likely to go up in smoke along with 25% of the workforce.

might as well give up and hand Gatwick on a plate to easyJet
Not like they haven't done that before.
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Old 15th May 2020, 18:36
  #538 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Paddingtonbear View Post
This thread started off initially with a lot of good debate. Now, is it just my feeling or is it now littered with mainly (usual suspects) have been pilots/wannabe pilots/armchair pilots, acting as resident doom-mongers and some, seemingly getting kicks out of acting in such a way? If this applies to you, you may be well advised to find a hobby/pass time outside of the house.
couldn’t agree more Paddington. I thought this forum might suggest possible mitigation solutions or some degree of commonality on a way forward. I accept the points some have made about temporary reduced flying hours/temporary part time flying etc until such time as economic/commercial conditions improve. But aside from that I am,,,,,,,,,,, shall we say ‘disappointed’ (to be diplomatic) with the level of discourse and relevance to the topic
I’m out. Done. Nothing to be achieved here.
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Old 15th May 2020, 18:43
  #539 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fursty Ferret View Post
Would have thought they'd just use Vueling and Level in BA colours. Any existing protection against doing this likely to go up in smoke along with 25% of the workforce.

Are BA able to unilaterally remove that without agreement?
And if so why not just operate out of LHR with Vueling/Level under the BA brand as well?
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Old 15th May 2020, 19:07
  #540 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Foss View Post
Are BA able to unilaterally remove that without agreement?
And if so why not just operate out of LHR with Vueling/Level under the BA brand as well?
The power of logical thought escapes these clowns, The Foss I wouldn’t even bother. Like a downsizing Vueling suddenly has the ability in the current climate to expand into Gatwick but trash yields at the same time or, alternatively, it’s moved wholesale to the U.K. What then replaces Vueling in Spain?

(Sounds like they’ve forgotten about TUPE)

Last edited by Plastic787; 15th May 2020 at 19:17.
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