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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

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IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 10th Jan 2022, 20:09
  #2021 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
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I think someone may have a shock coming if/when they (re)join BA and realise what a bunch of shysters they’re working for. I’d be interested to hear their opinions in a few years. My advice , (take it or leave it), is to realise what you have to look forward to if you want a career in UK aviation post Brexit. I’d consider myself lucky to have had a glimpse of the future with enough time and youth to do something about it. If you want to have a career in BA, maybe consider standing for election as a rep so that you can influence events come the next downturn. Alternatively, start brushing up those IT and programming skills and get yourself in a job that will pay well and never experience the kind of ups and downs that aviation suffers periodically.
Either way, good luck.
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 21:05
  #2022 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
I think someone may have a shock coming if/when they (re)join BA and realise what a bunch of shysters theyíre working for. Iíd be interested to hear their opinions in a few years. My advice , (take it or leave it), is to realise what you have to look forward to if you want a career in UK aviation post Brexit. Iíd consider myself lucky to have had a glimpse of the future with enough time and youth to do something about it. If you want to have a career in BA, maybe consider standing for election as a rep so that you can influence events come the next downturn. Alternatively, start brushing up those IT and programming skills and get yourself in a job that will pay well and never experience the kind of ups and downs that aviation suffers periodically.
Either way, good luck.
The assumption is that all that were made redundant are twenty-something year old's that can just 'brush up' on some 'coding skills' and find another job? and not any that have a mortgage or family to provide for? The delusion among some of the members here is incredible. If it's that easy and we only need to 'brush-up' why can't the senior do such in the same manner, rather than just the junior?
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Old 12th Jan 2022, 10:58
  #2023 (permalink)  
 
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Oh dear Ö. Please donít come back on PPRuNe complaining BA isnít what you thought it would be in a few years. It is what it is. As are your colleagues . Just get on with it and realise the world doesnít owe you a living. As I keep telling my kids , life ainít fair. Best to crack on with it. As I mentioned in a previous post, take or leave my (well meant) advice.
If I had my time again, with the benefit of hindsight, etc, I would have gone into IT or finance . In BA and U.K. airlines you will earn every penny. Sadly , with the weak U.K. employment protections, you will always be regarded as a cost to be cut and the first out of the door come the next downturn. Do you want to work for an airline that does that via LIFO or one that gets rid of the longer serving ? The choice is yours. Iím sure there is an airline out there that does it differently ?
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Old 12th Jan 2022, 11:12
  #2024 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
Oh dear Ö. Please donít come back on PPRuNe complaining BA isnít what you thought it would be in a few years. It is what it is. As are your colleagues . Just get on with it and realise the world doesnít owe you a living. As I keep telling my kids , life ainít fair. Best to crack on with it. As I mentioned in a previous post, take or leave my (well meant) advice.
If I had my time again, with the benefit of hindsight, etc, I would have gone into IT or finance . In BA and U.K. airlines you will earn every penny. Sadly , with the weak U.K. employment protections, you will always be regarded as a cost to be cut and the first out of the door come the next downturn. Do you want to work for an airline that does that via LIFO or one that gets rid of the longer serving ? The choice is yours. Iím sure there is an airline out there that does it differently ?

This whole post absoloutely stinks of entitlement. What do you mean take your advice? Do you not understand the investment that most of your 'colleagues' undertook to become a pilot? You say in hidsight you would have gone into IT or finance, well surely you would have taken VR and 'brushed up' on your own programming (or investment banking) skills, and saved a seat for someone who's ability to 'brush-up' is inferior to yours?

What about an airline who gets rid based on training failures and personal conduct (we know there's enough of those characters out there) rather than based on who was unlucky enough to join at a certain point, or lucky enough to be in a seat in a certain 'efficient' aircraft?
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Old 12th Jan 2022, 15:44
  #2025 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
If I had my time again, with the benefit of hindsight, etc, I would have gone into IT or finance .
Of course you would, old bean. Why don't you do that now, if it's such a hard graft at BA? You've been taught how to be resilient surely? Let me guess though, you live in lala land and have no idea how the real world works. Let me tell you, it's a scary place out there.

Anyway, I think you'll find junior gripes lie with BACC , not BA. BA didn't orchestrate the downfall of the 249.
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Old 12th Jan 2022, 16:34
  #2026 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BAreject View Post
Of course you would, old bean. Why don't you do that now, if it's such a hard graft at BA? You've been taught how to be resilient surely? Let me guess though, you live in lala land and have no idea how the real world works. Let me tell you, it's a scary place out there.

Anyway, I think you'll find junior gripes lie with BACC , not BA. BA didn't orchestrate the downfall of the 249.
Well said. Some are struggling but will be happy to return to their passion for flying but there will be a visible divide for some in more ways than one.
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Old 12th Jan 2022, 16:36
  #2027 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BAreject View Post
Of course you would, old bean. Why don't you do that now, if it's such a hard graft at BA? You've been taught how to be resilient surely? Let me guess though, you live in lala land and have no idea how the real world works. Let me tell you, it's a scary place out there.

Anyway, I think you'll find junior gripes lie with BACC , not BA. BA didn't orchestrate the downfall of the 249.
well, apart from the fact BA would have shut half of Gatwick and all of the 747 fleet. Pretty sure that would have swept up a lot of that 249 anyway, and a lot more on top. Listen, itís shit that redundancies couldnít be avoided. Iíd have happily paid more to save everyone and Iím sure so would everyone else. Unfortunately for the 249 itís a seniority airline for everything; I know you donít want to hear it but Iím going to say it anyway and if you choose to rejoin then you will be bloody glad when the time comes again to negotiate an s188 that youíve got a god few years in. This was my 3rd S188 in BA in 23 years; the first one was September 11th and I thought I was out of the door so I know how awful it feels. Thankfully we managed to avoid any CR then; but COVID has been ona scale never seen before.
hopefully bluer skies ahead for all
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Old 12th Jan 2022, 17:41
  #2028 (permalink)  
 
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hopefully bluer skies ahead for all
Can’t really add any more to that sentiment!
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Old 27th Jan 2022, 08:46
  #2029 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
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Hearing rumours that the CRS is all coursed and there may be external recruitment before the start of summer for early autumn courses - can anyone at BA or in the PRP confirm?
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Old 27th Jan 2022, 10:53
  #2030 (permalink)  
 
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Are the CRS and PRP pools already drained ? Iíd be surprised. Genuine question.
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Old 27th Jan 2022, 10:58
  #2031 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Love the optimism, but I can clarify that will not be the case. CRS looking likely to be empty by the end of May with the PRP next in line to be drained. Please donít forget that after than thereís another hold pool ĎPHPí of those pilots and cadets who signed contracts that never started.

So recruitment for those Ďnew-externalí DEPs is not just around the corner. Sorry.

I wish it was, that way Iíd get my job back sooner!
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Old 27th Jan 2022, 16:20
  #2032 (permalink)  
 
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What I meant was, they've exhausted all internal moves and the CRS and will begin to look to PRP and PHP, which are still external, come June July time. Not implying that there will be any 'proper' external recruitment for a while yet. I believe PRP is 130 through out of 270..... and that's for this New Gatport Wick outfit.
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Old 27th Jan 2022, 16:37
  #2033 (permalink)  
 
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It is interesting to note that no other IAG airline made any compulsory pilot redundancies during covid. BA did and now they are having to wet leaseÖ

Last edited by eagle21; 27th Jan 2022 at 16:48.
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Old 27th Jan 2022, 17:37
  #2034 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by vin2001 View Post
What I meant was, they've exhausted all internal moves and the CRS and will begin to look to PRP and PHP, which are still external, come June July time. Not implying that there will be any 'proper' external recruitment for a while yet. I believe PRP is 130 through out of 270..... and that's for this New Gatport Wick outfit.
Apologies, I must have misunderstood what you meant. Iím with you now and yes I believe that to be the case - it just depends on how many vacancies are left over once the CRS are absorbed into the summer 2022 fleet plan. Euroflyer required around 110 from the PRP, mainly FOs but some commands. We donít get told the specific numbers sadly.
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Old 27th Jan 2022, 18:51
  #2035 (permalink)  
 
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My bet is end of this year they will open up. I know 6 guys still waiting to go back to BA. Not far away but they say not before June for sure.

See how summer goes then open up September-ish to get externals started possibly next year.

This is all IMO and guess work.

Of course we are still not fully out of the woods yet, everyone treading carefully it seems.
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Old 28th Jan 2022, 12:26
  #2036 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect there will be hell to pay amongst the SH FO community (prospectively around 40% at least of the pilots on the bus will have valid bids for LH this year) if the inevitable happens and PRP and external recruitment begins to slide back into those vacant LH seats. Any LH vacancies should be coursed with those internal bidders with valid bids. We all know the “2 course argument” will come into play as a means to justify it but why does this rule set only seem to be applicable to Airbus FOs? If that’s such a big deal then surely BA should be recruiting DEC to LH as well as that’s more cost efficient than running two courses…. But we all know DEC LH is a non starter with the BACC. Shame they wont protect the career aspirations of their own pilots on the more junior side of the coin though. I see mass resignations from BALPA from SH FOs shortly on the horizon.
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Old 28th Jan 2022, 14:21
  #2037 (permalink)  
 
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Is there anywhere to see the T&Cís of the new gatwick start up?

how does it to compare to BA main and EasyJet?

itís the best kept secret in aviationÖwhy has it not been fully disclosedÖ

it would be great if someone could shed some light.
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Old 28th Jan 2022, 14:49
  #2038 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
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Shame they wont protect the career aspirations of their own pilots on the more junior side of the coin though. I see mass resignations from BALPA from SH FOs shortly on the horizon
You sound surprised. In case you were sleeping under a rock in 2020 whilst 249 were laid off, It should come as NO surprise to you that the BACC has very little interest in the aspirations of junior pilots. They won't give a t*ss about your threats of mass membership resignations. What's needed is fundamental change.
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Old 28th Jan 2022, 15:46
  #2039 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by BAreject View Post
You sound surprised. In case you were sleeping under a rock in 2020 whilst 249 were laid off, It should come as NO surprise to you that the BACC has very little interest in the aspirations of junior pilots. They won't give a t*ss about your threats of mass membership resignations. What's needed is fundamental change.
No I wasnít sleeping under a rock I was having difficulty sleeping as I was at risk myself but thanks for your needless condescension. Whilst I have every sympathy for those made redundant (and without going into the interminable discussion of the rights and wrongs of it) the fact remains that redundancy based on LIFO was no secret pertaining to employment with BA and in fact formed part of the Memorandum of Agreement attached to the contract that presumably you read before signing (howís that for condescending?). The fact that Balpa tried their best to uphold contractual terms should not have come as a shock to you. What I was referring to was something quite different. I also clearly want to see everybody from the PRP and PHP back in a seat as soon as possible however they should not be leapfrogging the career aspirations of those senior internal bidders with valid bids. If these people are allowed to move as they should then vacancies will be created as part of that process, pilots remaining on the P32L status list will benefit from increasing relative seniority instead of stagnating and opportunities will still exist to bring the PRP & PHP pilots rightfully back into the fold.

Last edited by Plastic787; 28th Jan 2022 at 16:47.
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Old 28th Jan 2022, 16:53
  #2040 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Plastic787 View Post
I also clearly want to see everybody from the PRP and PHP back in a seat as soon as possible however they should not be leapfrogging the career aspirations of those senior internal bidders with valid bids. If these people are allowed to move as they should then vacancies will be created as part of that process and opportunities will still exist to bring the PRP & PHP pilots rightfully back into the fold.
Sounds a lot more expensive to a company, or is the BACC going to fund this one too?

Plus, youíd be surprised at the number of former LH FOís in the PRP.
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