IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs
Increased flights to Portugal.... Not much else.
Join Date: Nov 2020
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Definitely a change afoot for July, shorthaul bid packs published at the moment have full lines of work and a CAP of 100. Busy by any standard.
Admittedly there may still be some furlough diluting the operation but almost all destinations seem to be in play.
Admittedly there may still be some furlough diluting the operation but almost all destinations seem to be in play.
How do you feel “voted out”? Do you believe you would have kept your job if the July 2020 ballot result was No? Genuine question.
Join Date: Jan 2022
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I have heard the CRS pool should be empty around Sept 2022. From then I would expect the remaining PRP pilots (those who didn’t take the LGW offering, or move on past BA) to begin to be brought back into the fold over the following 6 months or so.
How do you feel “voted out”? Do you believe you would have kept your job if the July 2020 ballot result was No? Genuine question.
How do you feel “voted out”? Do you believe you would have kept your job if the July 2020 ballot result was No? Genuine question.
I’d suggest it’s probably the vote… whereby pilots were voted out of the company to protect T&C’s of the senior pilots.
I would imagine so. 250 odd out of 4500 odd. 1 out of every 5, 20% chance, rather than the 100% chance of redundancy I was given. Considering most of the junior pilots are ‘cheaper’ and not on the jumbo (the redundant fleet) I’d have fancied my chances.
What do I know though. I’m a worthless MSL bottom feeder…
Good, only 9 months to a year until we can start earning above minimum wage and for the most part, begin to lay off the 100’s of thousands of pounds worth of loans. I would imagine this would reduce the stress for the majority.
I’d suggest it’s probably the vote… whereby pilots were voted out of the company to protect T&C’s of the senior pilots.
I would imagine so. 250 odd out of 4500 odd. 1 out of every 5, 20% chance, rather than the 100% chance of redundancy I was given. Considering most of the junior pilots are ‘cheaper’ and not on the jumbo (the redundant fleet) I’d have fancied my chances.
What do I know though. I’m a worthless MSL bottom feeder…
I’d suggest it’s probably the vote… whereby pilots were voted out of the company to protect T&C’s of the senior pilots.
I would imagine so. 250 odd out of 4500 odd. 1 out of every 5, 20% chance, rather than the 100% chance of redundancy I was given. Considering most of the junior pilots are ‘cheaper’ and not on the jumbo (the redundant fleet) I’d have fancied my chances.
What do I know though. I’m a worthless MSL bottom feeder…
Don’t forget BA’s opener was 1255 jobs, which while never discussed in detail, I would have imagined to include all of 747, LGW fleets plus chopping a large % off the bottom of both LHS and RHS of 777, 380 and Airbus. This would have forced the line much further up the MSL than the point at which it finally rested, plus included hundreds more from further up. (I did the numbers at the time and any way you cut it, the line went way further up from the bottom of the MSL)
I’m no BALPA fanboy, but I do think they did a solid job saving as many as they could under very trying circumstances. My only regret is that they couldn’t make the size of the CRS 550, which I believe the pilot body would have done in a heartbeat.
Evidently we see things pretty differently. I hope you and the rest of the PRP are welcomed back as quick as possible.
Unfortunately certain managers with an axe to grind with the pilots made it quite clear from the outset of negotiations that zero headcount loss was not an option. I am also no particular fan of BALPA but they probably got the best out of a pretty grim situation.
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As I understand pilot T&Cs were never on the table. We weren’t choosing between saving jobs and keeping senior pay scales. The company made it very clear it was about the headcount, not about the paycheque size. There was no mention of firing the pilots in reverse seniority, and even I wouldn’t have supported that (not exactly senior myself, north of 4000MSL).
Don’t forget BA’s opener was 1255 jobs, which while never discussed in detail, I would have imagined to include all of 747, LGW fleets plus chopping a large % off the bottom of both LHS and RHS of 777, 380 and Airbus. This would have forced the line much further up the MSL than the point at which it finally rested, plus included hundreds more from further up. (I did the numbers at the time and any way you cut it, the line went way further up from the bottom of the MSL)
I’m no BALPA fanboy, but I do think they did a solid job saving as many as they could under very trying circumstances. My only regret is that they couldn’t make the size of the CRS 550, which I believe the pilot body would have done in a heartbeat.
Evidently we see things pretty differently. I hope you and the rest of the PRP are welcomed back as quick as possible.
Don’t forget BA’s opener was 1255 jobs, which while never discussed in detail, I would have imagined to include all of 747, LGW fleets plus chopping a large % off the bottom of both LHS and RHS of 777, 380 and Airbus. This would have forced the line much further up the MSL than the point at which it finally rested, plus included hundreds more from further up. (I did the numbers at the time and any way you cut it, the line went way further up from the bottom of the MSL)
I’m no BALPA fanboy, but I do think they did a solid job saving as many as they could under very trying circumstances. My only regret is that they couldn’t make the size of the CRS 550, which I believe the pilot body would have done in a heartbeat.
Evidently we see things pretty differently. I hope you and the rest of the PRP are welcomed back as quick as possible.
I personally think if BA sat down and said for example, 'one from the top for every one from the bottom' that balpa would have managed. Removing the cheapest labour is never a sustainable cost saving measure. Perhaps a political statement for the strikes, that the majority of the 250 redundant weren't even in the company when they took place? Maybe.
I personally don't see the corruption regarding certain members of the BACC as a 'solid job' but, what do I know. I wasn't a part of the negotiation.
Not as much as me. 18 months with a flight school loan and no meaningful employment (for a lot of us) has been difficult.
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I’m no BALPA fanboy, but I do think they did a solid job saving as many as they could under very trying circumstances
BACC hammered the first nail in their own coffin with this ridiculous plan. None of the returning pilots with any self respect will sign up again and I'm sure that any new future pilots recruited will realise that the BACC will do nothing constructive for them - not in the early years anyway.
That said, I'm hearing Management are finally starting to put an end to this absolute nonsense that is the CRS.
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I think someone may have a shock coming if/when they (re)join BA and realise what a bunch of shysters they’re working for. I’d be interested to hear their opinions in a few years. My advice , (take it or leave it), is to realise what you have to look forward to if you want a career in UK aviation post Brexit. I’d consider myself lucky to have had a glimpse of the future with enough time and youth to do something about it. If you want to have a career in BA, maybe consider standing for election as a rep so that you can influence events come the next downturn. Alternatively, start brushing up those IT and programming skills and get yourself in a job that will pay well and never experience the kind of ups and downs that aviation suffers periodically.
Either way, good luck.
Either way, good luck.
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I think someone may have a shock coming if/when they (re)join BA and realise what a bunch of shysters they’re working for. I’d be interested to hear their opinions in a few years. My advice , (take it or leave it), is to realise what you have to look forward to if you want a career in UK aviation post Brexit. I’d consider myself lucky to have had a glimpse of the future with enough time and youth to do something about it. If you want to have a career in BA, maybe consider standing for election as a rep so that you can influence events come the next downturn. Alternatively, start brushing up those IT and programming skills and get yourself in a job that will pay well and never experience the kind of ups and downs that aviation suffers periodically.
Either way, good luck.
Either way, good luck.
Oh dear …. Please don’t come back on PPrune complaining BA isn’t what you thought it would be in a few years. It is what it is. As are your colleagues . Just get on with it and realise the world doesn’t owe you a living. As I keep telling my kids , life ain’t fair. Best to crack on with it. As I mentioned in a previous post, take or leave my (well meant) advice.
If I had my time again, with the benefit of hindsight, etc, I would have gone into IT or finance . In BA and U.K. airlines you will earn every penny. Sadly , with the weak U.K. employment protections, you will always be regarded as a cost to be cut and the first out of the door come the next downturn. Do you want to work for an airline that does that via LIFO or one that gets rid of the longer serving ? The choice is yours. I’m sure there is an airline out there that does it differently ?
If I had my time again, with the benefit of hindsight, etc, I would have gone into IT or finance . In BA and U.K. airlines you will earn every penny. Sadly , with the weak U.K. employment protections, you will always be regarded as a cost to be cut and the first out of the door come the next downturn. Do you want to work for an airline that does that via LIFO or one that gets rid of the longer serving ? The choice is yours. I’m sure there is an airline out there that does it differently ?
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Oh dear …. Please don’t come back on PPrune complaining BA isn’t what you thought it would be in a few years. It is what it is. As are your colleagues . Just get on with it and realise the world doesn’t owe you a living. As I keep telling my kids , life ain’t fair. Best to crack on with it. As I mentioned in a previous post, take or leave my (well meant) advice.
If I had my time again, with the benefit of hindsight, etc, I would have gone into IT or finance . In BA and U.K. airlines you will earn every penny. Sadly , with the weak U.K. employment protections, you will always be regarded as a cost to be cut and the first out of the door come the next downturn. Do you want to work for an airline that does that via LIFO or one that gets rid of the longer serving ? The choice is yours. I’m sure there is an airline out there that does it differently ?
If I had my time again, with the benefit of hindsight, etc, I would have gone into IT or finance . In BA and U.K. airlines you will earn every penny. Sadly , with the weak U.K. employment protections, you will always be regarded as a cost to be cut and the first out of the door come the next downturn. Do you want to work for an airline that does that via LIFO or one that gets rid of the longer serving ? The choice is yours. I’m sure there is an airline out there that does it differently ?
This whole post absoloutely stinks of entitlement. What do you mean take your advice? Do you not understand the investment that most of your 'colleagues' undertook to become a pilot? You say in hidsight you would have gone into IT or finance, well surely you would have taken VR and 'brushed up' on your own programming (or investment banking) skills, and saved a seat for someone who's ability to 'brush-up' is inferior to yours?
What about an airline who gets rid based on training failures and personal conduct (we know there's enough of those characters out there) rather than based on who was unlucky enough to join at a certain point, or lucky enough to be in a seat in a certain 'efficient' aircraft?