Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs

Old 28th Jan 2021, 11:52
  #1981 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 96
very feasible. In fact, there’s over 150 retirements (Age 65) planned in that period alone. Many Known unknowns And unknown unknowns (to quote DR), but it is most certainly do able.
3Greens is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2021, 18:26
  #1982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Above
Posts: 24
Paddingtonbear

It's been mentioned several times that the PRP period will be extended if need be.
Percula is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2021, 08:33
  #1983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Neverland
Posts: 1
I've gotten lost with the Acronyms.... What is PRP?
Potatos_69 is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2021, 08:44
  #1984 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Above
Posts: 24
It's the group of the 249 most junior pilots at the company that got made redundant as part of the deal that BALPA made with BA.
Percula is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2021, 12:27
  #1985 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 521
I don’t think that’s strictly correct but easy to assume.
OBK! is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2021, 12:29
  #1986 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Above
Posts: 24
All had less than 2 years service from what I know. I would say that’s pretty junior.
Percula is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2021, 12:32
  #1987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 521
That is junior. What you know isn’t correct though as per the matrix more senior folk where let go. Some with more than 8 years service.
OBK! is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2021, 12:41
  #1988 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Above
Posts: 24
I believe that was one or two people with a disciplinary. Most where just caught out by LIFO.
Percula is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2021, 12:43
  #1989 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 521
Yes I think you’re correct. Most were caught out by LIFO.
OBK! is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2021, 22:40
  #1990 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Dublin
Posts: 74
Percula

LIFO..ish.. due to the 787/350 and former BACF immunity, the top end of the 249 made redundant were 350+ places off the bottom of the MSL.
Still junior, but approaching PP3 vs pilots who were only weeks (or days) in the company when Covid hit, and yet to touch a BA aircraft but kept their jobs.
The Foss is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 07:23
  #1991 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 35
Posts: 73
BACF were certainly not immune. BACF contracts are with BA and therefore their service counted towards LIFO.
CaptainSox is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2021, 18:22
  #1992 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Dublin
Posts: 74
Imagine the uproar if BACF DOJ was suddenly used for bidding purposes.
At the end of the day there were approximately 70-80 pilots that got shafted out of seniority order.
In my eyes pilots with c. 2 years flying for BA mainline should not have lost their job ahead of those who may have only been in weeks or months, regardless of fleet or who they worked for previously. That’s exactly what LIFO was for.

Last edited by The Foss; 16th Feb 2021 at 18:56.
The Foss is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2021, 07:35
  #1993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 35
Posts: 73
There is no point imagining something that isn’t happening. Re the bidding process.
Although you may not like to think of the BACF Pilots as part of BA, their contracts say otherwise.
Legally their service had to count.
I would question the number being as high as 70-80.
There may well be that many BACF Pilots at mainline, but most of them would have already served more than 2 years. And therefore regardless of their city flyer service wouldn’t have been up for redundancy.
CaptainSox is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2021, 21:26
  #1994 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Dublin
Posts: 74
legally their service counts for statutory purposes when calculating a redundancy payment.
But it has no legal standing when determining a redundancy matrix. The company and the union can agree to put whatever they like in there provided it is non discriminatory, as we saw with Virgin when LIFO went out the window.
As LIFO doesn’t legally need to be part of the redundancy matrix, it can’t be legally required to consider DOJ at a subsidiary.
We have LIFO in the MOA to protect us but rely on Balpa to uphold that, which for the majority they did but a small number got very unlucky.

I believe ther were 20-30 former BACF pilots ‘below the line’ plus approx 50 787/350, hence the 70-80 made CR out of order.
The Foss is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2021, 06:34
  #1995 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 35
Posts: 73
We have LIFO in the MOA which states “ total service with an employer shall be taken into consideration” nowhere does it say the MSL is to be used.

And if you’re going to use 787/350 figures then it’s not just Cityflyer people who were saved, they wouldn’t even make up the majority in that group.

Again the MOA mentions retaining employment “in those showing high efficiency”.

Many many people were unlucky in all this, I just hope some sort of normality is in our future.
CaptainSox is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2021, 16:53
  #1996 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: In the flare
Posts: 43
My understanding from the numerous emails sent out by the union and company was that the 350/787 folk saved did not push the line up. This was explicitly explained so many times it was boring. They were saved at no cost. They were saved at companies request, not the union's. The only issue is it makes is those of us that were screwed a little bitter that junior people kept their jobs. Either x lose their job or x+787/350 lose their jobs. The line didn't rise by 40, 50 or any number to save the 350/78 pilots. It might make you sleep better at night to have them sacked too, but it is a fundamentally worse solution.
350/78 talk just muddies the water IMO. All it did was reduce the number of redundancies (a good thing).
BACF did increase the position of the line, but is legally backed so no arguments there, just the way it is and sadly overlooked by all, initially.

Mainly being devils advocate, a lot of stuff has happened I don't agree with. Covid is (say it together) unprecedented.
clamchowder is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2021, 18:35
  #1997 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Dublin
Posts: 74
CaptainSox

I said both in my first post on the matter, to quote - “due to the 787/350 and former BACF immunity”

It was simply a reply to someone who had said LIFO was used to point out yes, to an extent, but not completely.
The Foss is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2021, 20:11
  #1998 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: ??-ask crewing
Posts: 138
Pips are squeaking.. British Airways to defer £450m of pension contributions
Sick is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2021, 09:06
  #1999 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 198
I think if I was in NAPS I would be seriously thinking about taking my money out.
king surf is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2021, 10:05
  #2000 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 750
I think many people are in the process of doing so....or at least leaving just enough not to get penalized when/if NAPS goes into the PPF.
hunterboy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.